How to remove the balance spring

[rph952]

Can someone tell me how to remove this balance spring from the cock? It's wedged into the bottom of the circular metal tab marked in the photo. I know some springs can be loosened with a screw, but not this one. Thanks.

[Nucejoe]

The stud is press fitted into the hole in this fixed stud holder arm , can be pushed/ punched out of the hole. 

OR 

You might unpin the hairspring.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 2/6/2024 at 12:09 AM, rph952 said:

Can someone tell me how to remove this balance spring from the cock? It's wedged into the bottom of the circular metal tab marked in the photo. I know some springs can be loosened with a screw, but not this one. Thanks.

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Some studs are fixed to the arm, i had one a while back and did have to unpin the hairspring. 

[nevenbekriev]

Here the studd will get out.

[rehajm]

The cheap Smiths and the Baumgartners in the Mickey Mouse watches have a similar design. Are you just getting to the jewel for service? I was propping up the edge beyond the stud with a V groove stump and a press on the stud with a flat punch. It felt too risky so I just secured the balance wheel best I could with the underside of the cock exposed and unscrewed. Easier and safer I thought…

[rph952]

  On 2/6/2024 at 12:05 PM, rehajm said:

The cheap Smiths and the Baumgartners in the Mickey Mouse watches have a similar design. Are you just getting to the jewel for service? I was propping up the edge beyond the stud with a V groove stump and a press on the stud with a flat punch. It felt too risky so I just secured the balance wheel best I could with the underside of the cock exposed and unscrewed. Easier and safer I thought…

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Thanks for your thoughts. I'm trying to fix the spring, so I must release it. The spring is off to one side.

[watchweasol]

Hi  think the best method in this case is to secure the balance cock and press out the stud . This I would say is the least risky option.

[Nucejoe]

 Hairspring pin can be pulled out with a percision long nose pliers. 

Used carefully cheap pliers last long, heres

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001972446614.html

Repinning the spring back is a bit challanging as you ought aim for the stud hole.

No more than Pulling the pin out with stud left in the cock is needed, preferably cock with balance attached  back on mainplate.

Good luck

Edited February 6, 2024 by Nucejoe

[rph952]

OK, I removed the hairspring pin by putting back the cock bridge and then tapping gently with a hammer and pin driver (for watch bracelet). Here's what I have. It looks like concentric circles except for the last section. I've watched quite a few videos on shaping the spring. Even though it's a cheap movement (but Swiss made) it looks like the spring metal is better than the blue steel.

[Nucejoe]

 Apparently it didn't even need to be detached from the cock, as the coil looks undamaged, but the terminal curve should be shaped parralel to other circles such that you end up with a concentric coil when terminal curve passes through the regulator slot. Final adjustments are done when all is installed back on mainplate . 

Its likely to be out of beat when installed, which requires turning the coil a few degrees, you'd be shooting for zero beat error , not an easy task.

I wouldn't touch the impulse pin, turn the coil instead.

Good luck.

[rph952]

I released the spring for a better view and access. I can't figure out how to flatten the last stretch up to the hairspring stud. It's bent up. Thanks.

[HectorLooi]

Is this a normal flat hairspring or a Breguet overcoil?

[rph952]

I had to read up on a Breguet overcoil. I don't think so. Here's what I saw when I opened the watch.

[HectorLooi]

Could you post a close up photo from a side view of the kink, so that we can see if it's an actual bend or just a twist in the spring?

[Nucejoe]

 You have the balance and cock detached now, lay the cock upside down on bench to measure the distance from hole in the setting and regulator slot, a rough guess would do as well , as the bend can be manipulated when balance complete is installed  on mainplate. 

 It be nice if you can find an image of balance complete for the same caliber as a model  to copy,   a bend near the stud might be neccessary for final adjustment to the coil.

Good luck

[Klassiker]

Put the stud back on the cock.

1. Is the hairspring flat?

2. Does the terminal curve make an arc with same radius as the regulating pins?

3. Does the collet lie directly above the pivot jewel?

Adjust accordingly.

It looks like you originally had the two bends to make the start of the terminal curve, but now you've removed the second one.

[nevenbekriev]

The first action needed is this:

Here the small circles show where to grasp with tweezers and arrow shows where to push with something, e.g. needle or another tweezers, the aim is to increase the radius and bring the studd some little away from the sping body.

The next step is this:

The aim is to bring the outer coil closer to the spring body. It actually has to go paralel to the body and to keep distance about 2X the distance between the other coils inside the body. Try to do this as acurate as possible by bending in the manner with tweezer and needle.

Next step is to bring the outer coil in one plain with the spring body.

 

Here You must grasp with two tweezers and twist the portion between tweezers in manner that hte outer coil will get in the plain of the body. I am not sure about the points where the grasp mus be, as I don't have picture from aside, but hope I am close and You will get the idea.

The next step is to put the studd in place in the hole of the cock.

The studd must be oriented as per the line shown.

The cock is upside down, hairspring up. Then, grasp with tweezers close to the studd and pish and twist  as needed in order to bring the spring in place and paralel to the plane of the cock.

Show the result at that point.

Edited February 8, 2024 by nevenbekriev

[rph952]

  On 2/8/2024 at 4:50 AM, Nucejoe said:

 You have the balance and cock detached now, lay the cock upside down on bench to measure the distance from hole in the setting and regulator slot, a rough guess would do as well , as the bend can be manipulated when balance complete is installed  on mainplate. 

 It be nice if you can find an image of balance complete for the same caliber as a model  to copy,   a bend near the stud might be neccessary for final adjustment to the coil.

Good luck

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I measured every which way. Not sure exactly what was asked for.

  On 2/8/2024 at 6:25 AM, Klassiker said:

Put the stud back on the cock.

1. Is the hairspring flat?

2. Does the terminal curve make an arc with same radius as the regulating pins?

3. Does the collet lie directly above the pivot jewel?

Adjust accordingly.

It looks like you originally had the two bends to make the start of the terminal curve, but now you've removed the second one.

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The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 2/8/2024 at 11:44 PM, rph952 said:

I measured every which way. Not sure exactly what was asked for.

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide.

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The last outer coil is the one that fits between the regulator pins not the second coil in. The stud also needs to be turned anti cw and the spring straightened out from there. I'm beginning to think that the spring is too long and should be repinned, or the bend at the terminal curve be removed and  completely restarted

Edited February 9, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[nevenbekriev]

The spring is not pinned to the stud. It is put in a notch and the notch is (riveted)? So, no good idea to detouch from the stud

[Nucejoe]

  On 2/8/2024 at 11:44 PM, rph952 said:

I measured every which way. Not sure exactly what was asked for.

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide.

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You have shown it to be  3.3mm , thats where( called regulator arm slot )  the outer most circle ( the terminal curve ) should pass through. 

Lucky the coil looks flat, adjustment for levelness is most likely needed near the collet, sort out the terminal curve and relevent area first.

Good luck

 

Edited February 9, 2024 by Nucejoe

[Klassiker]

  On 2/8/2024 at 11:44 PM, rph952 said:

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide

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@nevenbekriev has already identified the obvious faults that I can see at this stage. He's also given you some good advice on how to correct them. Of course, knowing what to do and actually having the hand / eye coordination, technique and tools to do it are two very different things. It takes a lot of practice to do well, and most of us ruined hairsprings in the beginning. Everyone has to start somewhere though, so as long as this isn't a valuable piece to you, go ahead.

You will need some very sharp-pointed tweezers, a fine needle or oiler, a hard clean surface, good magnification, good lighting and lots of time and patience.

Go slowly. It's better to make five tiny adjustments in the right direction than overshooting back and forth. Whenever you are not sure what to do next, come back for advice.

[Nucejoe]

Heres how the coil should look.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 2/9/2024 at 3:30 AM, nevenbekriev said:

The spring is not pinned to the stud. It is put in a notch and the notch is (riveted)? So, no good idea to detouch from the stud

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I haven't seen that before, like to see a close picture of it.

[rph952]

I hope this is close enough. And given my lack of experience, it's as good as I can get it. It's a $5 Waldan watch, so no worries.  To me it looks ok, although there's a small kink at the outer coil. The coil is flat. It was pointed out the spring might be too long. It could be, but I think it's original. Thanks for all your help! Now I have to reassemble the balance. I got some advice on how to orient the stud. I know how to guide the spring around the regulator pin and shut it. I'm not sure about the alignment between pins. I don't have a jewel, but I think this is what they're talking about (circled in red) in photo.