What do you think as a replacement for The bergeon 5 spoke wheel lift tool?

[rossjackson01]

What do you think as a replacement for The bergeon 5 spoke wheel lift tool?

I'm into making my own tools and have made many. Also, in my 2 years I have purchased many cheaper version of high end tools. These have served me well. I'm almost at the end of my tools purchasing. However I have always thought about a tool for removing 5 spoke wheels. I use pegwood and use them as described by Kalle of Chronoglide. Gentle pressure and rotate. Always worked. Never had a problem after breaking the first one.

But I have seen one of these on ebay What do the members think?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185897966498

[tomh207]

Hey Ross, if you have a method that works then use it, for us hobbyists the time isn’t really a concern, for the pro’s who’ve time constraints that is a different matter and may need some investment. I suspect they would just go for the bergeon one.

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

What do you think as a replacement for The bergeon 5 spoke wheel lift tool?

I'm into making my own tools and have made many. Also, in my 2 years I have purchased many cheaper version of high end tools. These have served me well. I'm almost at the end of my tools purchasing. However I have always thought about a tool for removing 5 spoke wheels. I use pegwood and use them as described by Kalle of Chronoglide. Gentle pressure and rotate. Always worked. Never had a problem after breaking the first one.

But I have seen one of these on ebay What do the members think?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185897966498

Important to grip just the hub of the wheel,  if this can do that and fit between the spokes then why not

[rossjackson01]

36 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Important to grip just the hub of the wheel,  if this can do that and fit between the spokes then why not

Stop it. Now I'm thinking about it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Stop it. Now I'm thinking about it.

In watchmaking no bad thing comes from thought.

[Waggy]

15 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

as described by Kalle of Chronoglide

Ross, do you have the link to this video? I got a set of very long thin levers similar to the below which I have used once or twice with reasonable success

Th Presto version (the one with the blue handle) is £50.35 on CousinsUK and more elsewhere, but that doesn't matter because nobody has any in stock. The only place to find them is eBay or the like and people are PAYING £300.00++ for them and even the Chinese knock offs are being sold for £100+ . I just can't bring myself to be exploited and pay over £300 for something which costs less than £5 to make . Essentially it's just modified regular presto tool, and you can pick up a regular (black handle) good generic presto tool for less than £20.

The eBay tool looks interesting, would be very interested to hear any feedback if anyone gets one.

 

Edited January 25 by Waggy

[rossjackson01]

Waggy. Decided against the tools. Actually made a pair of extend levers as shown. Bent wheels twice.  Will stick with my peg wood. Chronoglide system works perfectly. Place two pieces of cut pegwood through leaves and to base of hub. Rotate both back and forth in fingers slowly. Believe it or not, the gentle pressure lifts the wheel. Takes a few minutes, but always works. As the wheels were pressure fit, this is the reverse. No damage to wheels at all.

Edited January 25 by rossjackson01

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Waggy. Decided against the tools. Actually made a pair of extend levers as shown. Bent wheels twice.  Will stick with my peg wood. Chronoglide system works perfectly. Place two pieces of cut pegwood through leaves and to base of hub. Rotate both back and forth in fingers slowly. Believe it or not, the gentle pressure lifts the wheel. Takes a few minutes, but always works. As the wheels were pressure fit, this is the reverse. No damage to wheels at all.

Good tip Ross. Easing the tapered tip of a sharpened pegwood  under the hub with some rotation can work really well. Another is Alex from about time uses 2 brass rods with a step cut out. The idea that the pegwood can be compressed without damaging the wheel.

[rossjackson01]

Don't you just love the people on this forum.

Just made a tool for closing a cannon pinon that is loose. I had tried to close a cannon pinion by using my Staking set, but applied to much 'hammer'. Actually pierced the pinion

Saw this DIY on this forum, made by a member.

I have now converted a nail clipper. Taken out the plunger. Inserted a bolt, made it solid with a filed down nut and then put another on the top. I now have the facility to do what he did. Using the flat edge as a gauge I can apply pressure to about 1/1000" depth. Need to file the cutting edge a little. But it looks ok.

 

Edited January 25 by rossjackson01

[RichardHarris123]

Yes Ross, the people on this forum are brilliant. Could you use a wing nut instead of the ordinary nut or would there be too little torque? 

Ps , you could add washers to limit the closure. 

[Jon]

This is what I teach my students when it comes to removing five-spoke wheels.

If an improvisation is used, use a twist motion under the hub of the wheel in opposite twists directions until the staked on wheel comes off

[rossjackson01]

Much better that the thinned down levers I made. The stem on mine wat too thick and distorted the wheel. Never thought of a main spring.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Don't you just love the people on this forum.

Just made a tool for closing a cannon pinon that is loose. I had tried to close a cannon pinion by using my Staking set, but applied to much 'hammer'. Actually pierced the pinion

Saw this DIY on this forum, made by a member.

I have now converted a nail clipper. Taken out the plunger. Inserted a bolt, made it solid with a filed down nut and then put another on the top. I now have the facility to do what he did. Using the flat edge as a gauge I can apply pressure to about 1/1000" depth. Need to file the cutting edge a little. But it looks ok.

 

Remember to use a rod inside the cannon pinion Ross

[nickelsilver]

The ebay linked tool would never work.

[eccentric59]

After bending a pivot beyond the point of recovery i went and bought the Bergeon tool from Otto Frei. I figure it would pay for itself in replacement wheels or donor movements I wouldn't have to order.

[rossjackson01]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Remember to use a rod inside the cannon pinion Ross

Ah. That I had not done. Lack of experience and too excited to just 'hammer'. I will try the Staking Set again next time. At least I will have my new back up trusty clipper.

8 hours ago, eccentric59 said:

After bending a pivot beyond the point of recovery i went and bought the Bergeon tool from Otto Frei. I figure it would pay for itself in replacement wheels or donor movements I wouldn't have to order.

Take your point about the 5 spoke wheel lifter. I think that would be the correct thing to do and I would love to own one. However, for me, not an option. I am never going to be repairing at a level where it would be cost effective. Services are just for me. Would not like the pressure of doing it for others. Fun and experience is the name of my game.

10 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The ebay linked tool would never work.

Think you are right in retrospect. Good to dream though

Edited January 26 by rossjackson01
Grammar

[Malocchio]

Anyone got the link to that Chronoglide video? I haven't yet removed such a wheel but I think I have one pocket watch waiting.

[rossjackson01]

18 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

Anyone got the link to that Chronoglide video? I haven't yet removed such a wheel but I think I have one pocket watch waiting.

I've been asked about the location of this comment before. However it was within one of the Tuesday evening tutorials within the last two months, I think. Each is the display of the disassembly of a watch and last usually 1 1/2 hrs. I've been watching and learning for over 12 month now. 

Great to learn about disassembly and what to look for. Wonderful explanations on the causes of damage, and good practices for disassembly.

There are over 200 videos which cover many specialised aspects. Chrionoglide includes many pocket watch disassembly's. Chronoglied has also started to do information videos abut the watch industry. These are mainly on a Thursday evening.

I learn assembly from other videos on YouTube

Hope this helps

[VWatchie]

12 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

I've been asked about the location of this comment before. However it was within one of the Tuesday evening tutorials within the last two months, I think. Each is the display of the disassembly of a watch and last usually 1 1/2 hrs.

Thanks, Ross! Any clues as to what type or brand of watch it was? Thinking it could facilitate in finding the video.

[rossjackson01]

3 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks, Ross! Any clues as to what type or brand of watch it was? Thinking it could facilitate in finding the video.

I really can't remember. May be even more than 2 month. I know it was and upmarket watch. For me anything over £30 is up market, sorry. However it was in discussion about the removing of a press fit wheel. He actually used the Bergeon tool, but discussed how his original tutor dealt with the issue, and that the tutor, even though he had the Bergeon tool, always used the pegwood. I think he demonstrated the use of the pegwood, but for time constraint of the evening, used the Bergeon tool.

I have used this pegwood method 4 times since. NO problems. Just took time. Up to to 4 minutes one one occasion. Stuck screws have taken infinitely longer.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Ah. That I had not done. Lack of experience and too excited to just 'hammer'. I will try the Staking Set again next time. At least I will have my new back up trusty clipper.

Haha Ross does "Hammer Time" yey. Watch out Kalle Slapp

35 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks, Ross! Any clues as to what type or brand of watch it was? Thinking it could facilitate in finding the video.

I'll find it. I think i watched it , i thought it was ages ago though, definitely seen someone do it. 

[rossjackson01]

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha Ross does "Hammer Time" yey. Watch out Kalle Slapp

I'll find it. I think i watched it , i thought it was ages ago though, definitely seen someone do it. 

Think you may be right. Time flies when you enjoy yourself.

[VWatchie]

28 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

I really can't remember. May be even more than 2 month. I know it was and upmarket watch.

No worries Ross! When I eventually find it I'll link it. In the meantime here's a video section where Kalle demonstrates the Bergeon 5-spoke wheel lift tool (only 50.35 excl. tax and shipping from Cousins ).

[JackH]

There is also this tool from Bergeon : https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/wheel-hand-roller-remover-bergeon It looks tricky to use. 

[Jon]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:05 PM, rossjackson01 said:

ust made a tool for closing a cannon pinon that is loose. I had tried to close a cannon pinion by using my Staking set, but applied to much 'hammer'. Actually pierced the pinion

Always best to use a piece of brass wire to fit into the cannon pinion to stop it from being crushed. Put the wire on a hardwood block with a groove scored into it with the edge of a file and file the brass wire with a slight taper until it fits snuggly into the cannon pinion. The same wood block can be used to polish arbors with a lolly stick and some Autosol then Brasso like in the pic

Edited January 26 by Jon