Straightening pivots.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Here is my first attempt with a Seitz pivot straightener. Tbh i thought this was just a very expensive gimmick gadget. But it works and it works well, straightening an escape wheel actually took me an hour carefully figuring out the most efficient and safest way but with good results. The next would be half an hour, the next i would guess about 15 mins. It works by placing the bent pivot wheel in progressively smaller pivot holes and turning the wheel against a register that you pull up to the wheel ( this is where the most time is spent being careful ). Eventually the pivot is placed in the smallest hole it will enter, here under 40x mag the bend is very evident and turning no longer straightens the bend out . I finished by finding a midway spacing between the wheel and the register and gently pushing the wheel over, the register stops you pushing too far and snapping off the pivot. See pictures for the start and finished pivot.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[oldhippy]

Looks good. A job to see with a photo did it need burnishing. Many on here might not know how this tool works you might like to give a run through how it works. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Looks good. A job to see with a photo did it need burnishing. Many on here might not know how this tool works you might like to give a run through how it works. 

I did actually think it needed some burnishing but i haven't done anything this small before. I will admit that i cheated and used a pin polisher on it, it shined up quite well. While doing that it gave me the thought that pin polishing a pivot could potentially flatten off the tip. 

[oldhippy]

If you want to be a perfectionist both pivots should look the same. It still looks good which is better then my eyes.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

31 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Looks good. A job to see with a photo did it need burnishing. Many on here might not know how this tool works you might like to give a run through how it works. 

Will do that later today OH. Its not a cheap tool, i wonder how many have one. This cost me 120, I've seen them go for double that, but i will say its certainly worth what i paid for it. 

[oldhippy]

I know they are expensive and not everyone can afford one, but now members can see what it can do so everyone will want it. Christmas is just around the corner.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

If you want to be a perfectionist both pivots should look the same. It still looks good which is better then my eyes.  

I messed up a bit on the pictures, the first 2 with the bent pivot i took through my small x10 microscope using digital zoom on my phone so they look a bit grainy .I then did the repair under my big surgeons scope at x25 and x40 and took the next 2 pictures from there with very little help from my phone. The pivots both look ok now, just need a clean. 

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I know they are expensive and not everyone can afford one, but now members can see what it can do so everyone will want it. Christmas is just around the corner.  

Ok so I've also just driven the price up

[Neverenoughwatches]

It was suggested that i do a little  review so for anyone interested this is the Seitz 30350 "Tool for straightening the pivots".  Now i have no instructions for this just bits and pieces that @JohnR725 could tell me, i know he has one. So these are just my findings and what i thought worked for me. It is by no means cheap for a little gadget but if it does the job then it does the job, cost is irrelevant.  Ive seen about half a dozen of these come up in the last two years, always way above what i wanted to pay, but good things come to those that wait so they say. Its construction is very simple, the best inventions usually are.  A metal base with 33 pressed in flat pivot jewels, ranging in size from 0.07mm to 0.15mm in increments of 25 microns ( correct me anyone if my maths is wrong ) . So 0.07, 0.0725, 0.0750, 0.0775, 0.08 and so on.  Mounted on the base is a spring loaded register arm that swivels so it can be positioned above any one jewel and height adjusted. The idea is to place the bent balance pivot in the first hole it will enter with no resistance then bring the register arm up against the balance wheel ( or possibly the staff itself, i thought that was more awkward and risked scratching it ) I actually lowered the arm onto the top edge rim of the wheel which helped to stabilise it and pull the bend out. Turn the wheel a few times then move the arm away and position the balance pivot into the next smaller hole and then repeat this process. The first few pivot holes nothing much seems to happen maybe the hole i chose to start with was too big. The later steps shows more noticable straightening , the last few is where the magic takes place. I used 0.13 down to 0.1075 ten steps in total. The final step didnt quite finish the job off for me, i wasn't totally happy as i could still see some wheel wobble acting up from the bent pivot. The next step felt risky and is probably not recommended and very unlikely in the instructions. I looked for a midway point of trueness between the wheel and the register arm, brought the arm up to that midway point and then gently teased the wheel towards the arm and check for true Voilà job done, the arm stops you pushing too far over and breaking off the pivot. Now to do this properly you need good magnification , i used x25 and x40 , you must be able to see what you are doing. Being very careful wins the day, slow and controlled movements, i would almost compare it to hairspring manipulation. This attempt was on an escape wheel so i guess more delicate and tricky not to damage the teeth, a balance should be easier. Is the pivot weakened undergoing 2 bends maybe but its still a repair, time will tell.

[gpraceman]

So the arm isn't meant to press down on the high side of the wheel, as you spin it around in the jewel?

[rehajm]

Nice write up. I have had success with this tool as well. There was one in my Seitz press set…I’ve only tried it with a balance so nice to see some success with other parts as well

9 hours ago, gpraceman said:

So the arm isn't meant to press down on the high side of the wheel, as you spin it around in the jewel?

Not according to the instructions from Seitz. As neverenoughwatches says it is there to steady the wheel in the pivot hole. I have been placing the arm on top of a wheel to hold the pivot as vertical as possible then I rotate the wheel from the opposite side with a couple horsehairs. Start with a larger hole and slowly work down near the pivot diameter. As you start to straighten there’s a slight bit of resistance in a new hole that lightens up after a few full turns. It is actually a quite satisfying tool to use when it works…

[JohnR725]

At home I have just the disc with jewels all the other bits and pieces are either missing or somewhere else. On the other hand when I was at work once with a bent balance pivot and not wanting to replace the staff The tool came in very handy and I basically didn't use the bits and pieces that are a guide. I started with the biggest hole and eyeballed it and it worked out really nice. Nice straight pivot didn't have to replace the balanced staff and everything was good conceivably depending upon things are probably break the staff and I don't remember if I refinish the pivot afterwords are not. I'm tending to go with I just straightened out and everything was fine

then because the Swiss can they've upgraded the tool probably updated the price also. There is with the new version looks like and a PDF attached of how you're supposed to use the thing.

 

 

7135 7136 30350 new.pdf

[rehajm]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I started with the biggest hole and eyeballed it and it worked out really nice

Yes. that seems to be the thing- the Gebrauchsanweisung show the hole does the straightening, not pressure on the wheel from the arm…

[quantieme]

good write up, I had to wait about 3 years before the right one came up at the right price on Ebay and bought mine 2 years ago for £80 boxed as well, I have only used it twice with limited success as I never quite new how and never got round to researching its correct use. Again I only thought it was for balances, good to know it can be used for other wheels. Thanks for sharing and taking the time to do the write up.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 12/17/2023 at 5:00 PM, gpraceman said:

So the arm isn't meant to press down on the high side of the wheel, as you spin it around in the jewel?

I'm not entirely sure, i wasn't able to find any instructions, but that is how i came to do it in end. I could see the register arm lifting up and down, which surprised me as the arm has to bend to be able to move up and down.

On 12/21/2023 at 7:02 PM, quantieme said:

good write up, I had to wait about 3 years before the right one came up at the right price on Ebay and bought mine 2 years ago for £80 boxed as well, I have only used it twice with limited success as I never quite new how and never got round to researching its correct use. Again I only thought it was for balances, good to know it can be used for other wheels. Thanks for sharing and taking the time to do the write up.

I think it was just designed for balance staffs, i had a bent escapewheel pivot on a restoration from a while ago that had been put aside so i thought why not give it a go, its my first time using it. I've literally just gotten around to casing up the movement, busy sorting out a load of old movements i bought and making washing machine devices. Here we have it running dial up and crown down an hour after a full wind, i think the pivot survived the ordeal and is doing well.

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'm not entirely sure, i wasn't able to find any instructions, but that is how i came to do it in end. I could see the register arm lifting up and down, which surprised me as the arm has to bend to be able to move up and down.

I think it was just designed for balance staffs, i had a bent escapewheel pivot on a restoration from a while ago that had been put aside so i thought why not give it a go, its my first time using it. I've literally just gotten around to casing up the movement, busy sorting out a load of old movements i bought and making washing machine devices. Here we have it running dial up and crown down an hour after a full wind, i think the pivot survived the ordeal and is doing well.