Rolex 1570 Hairspring adjustment

[BrehmerR]

Hi everyone!
I'm currently working on a Rolex 1024 with a 1570 movement in really great condition. One thing which is a little off is however is the hairspring which I am noticing is a bit off center when the balance is mounted on the main plate. When checking out the hairspring, it seems like it's a bit kinked at the spot I have marked. However, I don't think this is the main cause for the off center profile of the entire hairspring when mounted. Can anyone with more experience see if there is something obviously wrong in another spot of the spring?

The reason I am asking is because I'm not terribly experienced on balances in specific. I feel like I am getting good at everything else but balances, I don't get to work on too often and it feels wrong to start on a Rolex hairspring /:
I don't really feel like paying for a replacement if I ruin anything haha.

Thanks in advance(:

 

[Ronp]

Take the balance wheel off from the balance bridge. And look again. Is he centred, is he flat, and work from that point onwards on the spring. But first I would correct the bend you showed on the picture to perfection again. All withe balance removed from the bridge. Do not remove the spring from the balance itself.

[BrehmerR]

Lays completely flat and looks pretty good to me.

[RichardHarris123]

It's touching, bent in multiple places. 

[BrehmerR]

13 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

It's touching, bent in multiple places. 

This just shows how inexperienced I am at balances(:

 

thanks!

[RichardHarris123]

Me too.  

[BrehmerR]

I found a picture of what they're supposed to look like and mine is definitely a bit off. 

[praezis]

It is a Breguet hairspring. What you see is no touching but the coil in 2nd level (over main level).

It needs to be centered without balance wheel, hairspring mounted in cock.

However surely not recommended for unexperienced repairers!

Frank

[Nucejoe]

From the picture, I am not even sure if its a free sprung.

Young men, need to borrow your eyes.

 The lower level is actually a flat H/S, and no different aproach needed  to shape it concentric either. Shape the upper level so when you fit the stud into the stud holder, it wouldn't push or pull the main level out of level or flat. You'd be adjusting the height, sometimes you can  adjust the height by high/lowering the stud in stud hole, that is  trying to avoid unneccessary bending of the hairspring.

[JohnR725]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:16 AM, Nucejoe said:

From the picture, I am not even sure if its a free sprung

I don't suppose you see the regulator anyplace? Maybe it got misplaced in a prior repair. While some Rolex watches do have regulators most of them do not they are free sprung.

 

On 9/5/2023 at 9:37 AM, BrehmerR said:

I found a picture of what they're supposed to look like and mine is definitely a bit off. 

I found another picture.

Then I'm having a confusion what exactly is wrong with his hairspring now? The reason I ask is you claim its offset or it looks relatively centered it's in over coil hairspring as has been explained above. Which means when the flat part of the hairspring goes to the upper part it has to crossover if you look straight down it looks like it's touching it really isn't. If you look inside ways how does it look preferably with the balance wheel in the watch not as we see it here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Rolex_1570

 

[Ronp]

There is no regulator, the timing is adjusted with the 2 screws with star type head. Special tool used for this. Please note if you adjust these screws you have to adjust both of them exactly the same, other wise the balance will be out of poise, meaning you will create a heavy point on the balance band and this means there will be  serious difference in the rate over the 4 vertical positions.

This is not for a beginner to correct without a proper timing machine and theoretical knowledge. So be carefull what you are doing here. If it was  A Seiko, I would say go ahead and play. Nothing lost if you have to bin  Seiko. A Rolex is a different story, valuable and lovable. 

Have a look here for some background: https://adjustingvintagewatches.com/what-is-watch-adjusting/

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Ronp said:

This is not for a beginner to correct without a proper timing machine and theoretical knowledge. So be carefull what you are doing here. If it was  A Seiko, I would say go ahead and play. Nothing lost if you have to bin  Seiko. A Rolex is a different story, valuable and lovable. 

Did you notice the watch is currently in pieces way up above? Not the first time on the group somebody's working on a Rolex with no Rolex knowledge. I'm looking forward to how the hairspring turns out.

 

[PeterS]

How was it when you did the initial inspection before disassembly?
Can we see how it behaved on the timing machine / timegrapher or whatever you have before you disassembled it?

[Ronp]

Indeed,  to many brave souls on this planet. And when all goes wrong, lossing a lot of money. In this case a new balance for 1570 could easily set you back 500+ dollars on the grey, ebay market. If you take the watch assembled again to a Rolex AD, you will have to pay for a full service and on top probably another 250 dollar for a new balance.

[JohnR725]

8 minutes ago, Ronp said:

If you take the watch assembled again to a Rolex AD, you will have to pay for a full service and on top probably another 250 dollar for a new balance.

 

On 9/5/2023 at 8:28 AM, BrehmerR said:

1570 movement

I suppose it depends upon where in the planet your authorized service provider is. But aren't they authorized only to service modern Rolex movements? So a 1570 would be classified as vintage? Vintage meeting that the normal service provider is not authorized to service it it must go back the Rolex and basically that means a heck of a lot of money if they'll even service it at all.

I was doing a quick look for something related this and here's an interesting thing on servicing vintage. So yes at one time it would've been a lot cheaper now it's expensive and no Rolex does not have to play by the rules their big enough to do whatever they feel like which they do.

https://professionalwatches.com/the-unfortunate-truth-about-vintage-rolex-repairs/

 

[mzinski]

Can you post a picture looking at the balance installed on the balance cck looking at it under magnification uninstalled to the movement from the bottom side and installed to the movement from the side view? 

As two asides: 

- If you are attentive, a balance complete for a 1530 can be had off eBay, forums, and some dealers for $250-$400. Nothing compared with a balance for a 10XX series rolex movement. For spare parts, pay attention to FieryGems on eBay. Greater seller, reasonably priced parts. 

- I actually think messing with a Rolex 15XX, 30XX, and 31XX is more forgiving than other vintage hairsprings. Their almost pocketwatch like in the thickness and resilience - at least compared to Rolex 6XX, 7XX, 10XX and ETA's etc. 

[Ronp]

In the Netherlands, the 1570 is normally serviced with all parts available for this movement at the local AD, no need to ship to HQ Rolex in Swiss.

250 dollars would be steal for a factory new balance in a not openend before blister. So much so called new old stock with some sign of storage is in reality an old, used part in a questionable condition. F.e. take a look on ebay vfor a vintage nos movement, how often are the screws marred. Screws do not get marred from storage but from loosing or tightening by a wrong screwdiver.

Back to the subject: Adjusting the balance spring is an art that takes much practice to hone your skills to the required level for a high quality brequet balance like a rolex 1570.

 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Ronp said:

In the Netherlands, the 1570 is normally serviced with all parts available for this movement at the local AD, no need to ship to HQ Rolex in Swiss.

So in the Netherlands as it would be serviced locally would it be serviced at the same cost as a newer Rolex in other words it's not considered vintage?

2 hours ago, Ronp said:

take a look on ebay vfor a vintage nos movement, how often are the screws marred. Screws do not get marred from storage but from loosing or tightening by a wrong screwdiver.

What I find amusing on eBay is not so much the screws but people selling balance wheels with interesting hairspring conditions. For instance a quick look for 1570 gives us this balance wheel At the bargain price of $250 because something with a better hairspring cost a couple hundred more as you can see it has interesting hairspring problems and almost looks like perhaps a little discoloration like maybe a little rust?

2 hours ago, Ronp said:

Back to the subject: Adjusting the balance spring is an art that takes much practice to hone your skills to the required level for a high quality brequet balance like a rolex 1570.

Actually the first step to doing anything with the hairspring is to figure out what is actually wrong with it.  As the original pictures were very misleading. It's one of the problems I have with people using microscopes and looking straight down and not looking in like they should be because for the most part the hairspring is probably just fine but we don't get a report back the original posting person. We only get that straight down picture of oh dear it looks bad.

[mzinski]

6 hours ago, Ronp said:

250 dollars would be steal for a factory new balance in a not openend before blister. So much so called new old stock with some sign of storage is in reality an old, used part in a questionable condition. F.e. take a look on ebay vfor a vintage nos movement, how often are the screws marred. Screws do not get marred from storage but from loosing or tightening by a wrong screwdiver.

 

It is a good price but like I said, not unheard of if you pay attention to eBay and forums. I got a blistered 1570 for 250EUR last year - so a hair over 250USD but not far off.