DIY "Seitz" jeweled pivot gauge .......

[Endeavor]

In order to start learning my Jacot tool and select the right size bed, I wished for a Seitz jeweled pivot gauge.

Sadly, the prices asked for these gauges are astronomical. Currently on eBay from €350 and way upwards to over €500 !!

Wild West prices

 

 

In my Seitz jewel-box I had a "complete" range of jewels 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18 & 19 in the OD size of 110 and 20,22,24,26,28, 30 & 32 in the OD size of 120.

Marked 27x spots (1x1cm distance) on 10cmx10cm, 1mm thick copper-sheet and drilled them out with a 1mm drill.

The holes for the jewel sizes 8-19 were reamed to 109 and the other holes reamed to 119.

Cut the "to be jewel-gauge" at the size of 10x4cm, polished it and inserted the jewels;

Left the holes open for the "missing" jewels; 21, 23, 25, 27, 29 & 31 and there are two more slots empty for 33 & 34;

Whether I'll ever need these bigger sizes? They weren't in the Seitz jewel-box, perhaps for a reason? If I ever stumble over these sizes, I can insert them, the holes are already there. Those "missing" bigger sizes are also easy & safely to measure with a micrometer or gauge-caliper.

For now, I have a jeweled pivot-gauge with a full range from 8/100 to 20/100 and from 22/100 to 32/100 in steps of 2/100, I think enough for making a start on my Jacot-tool

Next, to finish this project off, is to find some small metal-stamps to number the jewel sizes.......

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Endeavor

[Endeavor]

10 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Left the holes open for the "missing" jewels; 21, 23, 25, 27, 29 & 31 and there are two more slots empty for 33 & 34;

If somebody, here in the EU, can help me on the missing sizes, preferably 120 in diameter, but slightly bigger are also no problem, I would be very interested.

Just in an envelop and I can pay with PayPal friends. Please PM me if you can help me out

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Endeavor

[praezis]

Well done!

However the gauge jewels have smaller hole tolerance than the public available ones, afaik.

Frank

[Endeavor]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

However the gauge jewels have smaller hole tolerance than the public available ones, afaik.

It seems that you can't win

The jewels I installed in my gauge are from a Seitz jewel-box. So, you are saying that the jewels installed in the official Seitz Jewel gauge do have smaller tolerances? If so, any idea by how much?

The whole, initial idea, was to have a gauge to safely determine a pivot size in order to select the correct bed of a Jacot tool runner.

Of course, my gauge has (hopefully) also to be able, in case of a broken jewel replacement, to select the correct jewel hole-size for a given pivot  .......... yes/no?

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Endeavor

[mikepilk]

Well done. If you go in to production - I'll have one 

[Endeavor]

28 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

If you go in to production

Will notify you if I do

Finally found a set of number stamps. Initially I couldn't find any on the German eBay until I typed the magic word "Schlagzahlensatz" in

3mm is hopefully a nice size ....

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Endeavor

[VWatchie]

22 hours ago, praezis said:

However the gauge jewels have smaller hole tolerance than the public available ones, afaik.

I'm also curious. What exactly does that mean? If a hole is specified to be 0.18 mm, whether on the Seitz jewel gauge or in the Seitz jewel box, its diameter is 0.18 mm, no (give or take a few microns which shouldn't have any significance, I guess )? 

[nickelsilver]

In my old Seitz catalog it says the jewels are accurate to 1/4 of 100th of a mm, or 0.0025. Not sure if that's +- or total; I recall seeing the same claim on one of the jewel assortments but not sure? I definitely have jewels in my stock (from other makers) with in-between sizes, like 0.095mm. I use the Seitz pivot straightener as a gage, and it's in 0.0025mm steps, so I would imagine those jewels are indeed held to a tighter tolerance. I think it's pretty standard practice to hold the jewel hole size to within 0.0025mm, it was 20 years ago but I visited the Robellaz jewel factory in Ste-Croix and remember being shocked how precise the jewels were- and also had a new respect for them!

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:49 PM, Endeavor said:

In order to start learning my Jacot tool and select the right size bed, I wished for a Seitz jeweled pivot gauge.

Sadly, the prices asked for these gauges are astronomical. Currently on eBay from €350 and way upwards to over €500 !!

Wild West prices

 

 

In my Seitz jewel-box I had a "complete" range of jewels 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18 & 19 in the OD size of 110 and 20,22,24,26,28, 30 & 32 in the OD size of 120.

Marked 27x spots (1x1cm distance) on 10cmx10cm, 1mm thick copper-sheet and drilled them out with a 1mm drill.

The holes for the jewel sizes 8-19 were reamed to 109 and the other holes reamed to 119.

Cut the "to be jewel-gauge" at the size of 10x4cm, polished it and inserted the jewels;

Left the holes open for the "missing" jewels; 21, 23, 25, 27, 29 & 31 and there are two more slots empty for 33 & 34;

Whether I'll ever need these bigger sizes? They weren't in the Seitz jewel-box, perhaps for a reason? If I ever stumble over these sizes, I can insert them, the holes are already there. Those "missing" bigger sizes are also easy & safely to measure with a micrometer or gauge-caliper.

For now, I have a jeweled pivot-gauge with a full range from 8/100 to 20/100 and from 22/100 to 32/100 in steps of 2/100, I think enough for making a start on my Jacot-tool

Next, to finish this project off, is to find some small metal-stamps to number the jewel sizes.......

 

Nice work endeavour, you have some good jewelling skills there 

[praezis]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

In my old Seitz catalog it says the jewels are accurate to 1/4 of 100th of a mm, or 0.0025. Not sure if that's +- or total

Exactly what I found and wondered about in my Seitz booklets. 

There is much bla-bla about high quality and accuracy, but they avoid hard facts. Do they mean tolerance of +-0.0025mm? Would be funny, as their 0.0025 mm stepped gauges claim the same accuracy in the catalog .

Only the preface in the 1944 book claims +-0.00012mm for the gauges. Some pages later, gauges, „accurate to 1/4 of 100th of a mm“.

Jewels: I can offer 23/140 and 25/140

Frank

[nickelsilver]

Ah yes I have the same book from 1944, missed the part in the intro about 0.00012mm, wow. Would make sense for the gages that go in 0.0025mm increments.

[thor447]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:51 AM, mikepilk said:

Well done. If you go in to production - I'll have one 

I'd buy one as well, most definitely!  

[Endeavor]

To conclude this thread, here the end result.

Not as neat & slick as I had in mind and not as neat & slick as the "real-$$$-deal", but it will work. Two more jewels to be added (23 & 25), which are on their way, kindly donated by our valued WTR member @praezis

It's fun and educative making this usable tool. I hadn't done jeweling before and this has given me quite some practice. I also learned more about the Seitz jeweling tool and the reamers (https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/26672-hole-shape-when-using-a-seitz-jewel-setting-tool-reamer/)

Sadly for the few, it won't be taken into production. Inspirational only

Oh yes, I managed to screw up the stamping of the numbers, but which other number better to pick than number "13" ?

Edited June 8, 2023 by Endeavor

[RichardHarris123]

14 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

To conclude this thread, here the end result.

Not as neat & slick as I had in mind and not as neat & slick as the "real-$$$-deal", but it will work. Two more jewels to be added (23 & 25), which are on their way, kindly donated by our valued WTR member @praezis

It's fun and educative making this usable tool. I hadn't done jeweling before and this has given me quite some practice. I also learned more about the Seitz jeweling tool and the reamers (https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/26672-hole-shape-when-using-a-seitz-jewel-setting-tool-reamer/)

Sadly for the few, it won't be taken into production. Inspirational only

Oh yes, I managed to screw up the stamping of the numbers, but which other number better to pick than number "13" ?

Not sure whether to like or laugh.  Hehe. 

[Endeavor]

2 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Not sure whether to like or laugh

Perhaps both are appropriate! I'm okay with any of the two

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

26 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

To conclude this thread, here the end result.

Not as neat & slick as I had in mind and not as neat & slick as the "real-$$$-deal", but it will work. Two more jewels to be added (23 & 25), which are on their way, kindly donated by our valued WTR member @praezis

It's fun and educative making this usable tool. I hadn't done jeweling before and this has given me quite some practice. I also learned more about the Seitz jeweling tool and the reamers (https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/26672-hole-shape-when-using-a-seitz-jewel-setting-tool-reamer/)

Sadly for the few, it won't be taken into production. Inspirational only

Oh yes, I managed to screw up the stamping of the numbers, but which other number better to pick than number "13" ?

Haha on purpose or spooky ?

[rehajm]

On 6/8/2023 at 6:26 AM, Endeavor said:

Oh yes, I managed to screw up the stamping of the numbers, but which other number better to pick than number "13" ?

…copied in quantity they could be plates for the buttons in very small elevators?