Oils to start my kit with ....advice appreciated

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I thought maybe it was a specific escapement lubrication.  just in case you don't have it I do have the PDF specification.

 

TK2213EN Type 1-3 oil.pdf 70.42 kB · 1 download

Its almost like a one oil does all, can watch lubrication really be this easy . Nah.

[JohnR725]

28 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Its almost like a one oil does all, can watch lubrication really be this easy

perhaps one lubrication can do it all except that's not the right one. It's the right company is just isn't the right lubrication they make something better. The only problem is getting it.

 

TS5500EN elgin oil.pdf

[Knebo]

Certainly not the budget-option, but these are the lubricants I got to start my journey. Still no need for anything else.

Moebius 9010 for escape and seconds wheel, balance cap jewels

Moebius HP 1300 for minute and hour wheel, barrel arbor and circular metal-on-metal applications

Moebius 9504 grease for other/sliding/rubbing metal-on-metal applications

Moebius 9415 for the pallet jewels.

 

As said before, you'd additionally need a breaking grease for automatic movements.

 

Get the smallest quantities you can get. You need only tiny amounts. One drop will be enough for several watches...

[JohnR725]

33 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Get the smallest quantities you can get. You need only tiny amounts. One drop will be enough for several watches...

here's an amusement that I have my first bottle of 9010 lasted for how long? It wasn't until I is at the lecture was told that lubrication should be changed on a regular basis that I realize I'm supposed to change my lubrication. Although I've now come to the conclusion at home that I never going to do that ever again because why should I. In other words if performance decrease dramatically I would say oh dear I need a new lubrication but I'm not doing work taking in money from others people so the personal watches I don't care.

so back to how long does a bottle of oil really lasts like my first bottle of 9010 it lasted until is at a lecture was told that needed to be replaced from time to time. In other words the quantity of lubrication you using is very very very small if you look at may be 10 years before you purchase another bottle I was divide 10 into the cost of all your oils that's which are paying per year and compared to everything else you're buying it really isn't that expensive and the cost per watch is it really that bad. It's only when you go to buy all of them at the same time plus a few more like I did and then it gets really expensive. Fortunately as I said as far as I'm concerned my lubrication at home will last forever not going to worry about it.  then I don't have to worry about the lecture anymore on changing oil some silly person that would probably be me said that lubrication is filled with controversy and the person giving the lecture won't explain which lubricants uses anymore and will explain a whole bunch of stuff because he doesn't really a caught in the well he just won't. So no more pesky lectures on that I need to change my oil occasionally.

33 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Certainly not the budget-option, but these are the lubricants I got to start my journey. Still no need for anything else.

this is a lubrication discussion there is always options for something else. There will also always be disagreements just because.

but I've been saved it says you got these already so now that you have them I won't comment on? Depending upon what you're doing it might've impossible to modify Webster with thinking of getting and dropping the total quantity of lubricants down perhaps but now that you have them were not going worry about that.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by JohnR725

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

this is a lubrication discussion there is always options for something else. There will also always be disagreements just because.

but I've been saved it says you got these already so now that you have them I won't comment on

 

 

 

Indeed! So controversial! Almost ideological.

Always happy to receive feedback, though. And since the thread-starter @bj501 is still pondering his purchases, your feedback won't be in vain.

[VWatchie]

On 5/7/2023 at 7:12 AM, Endeavor said:

Let me put it this way; Moebius 9415 doesn't work for me, Dr.Tillwich 1-3 does

My experience is that Dr.Tillwich 1-3 always gives me good results whereas 9415 most often (but not always) does.

And yes, I do my oiling meticulously under a stereo microscope to make absolutely certain I don't over-oil. I even remove the balance after a few days to make sure I have the right amount of oil between the impulse surface and the escape wheel teeth.

Fixodrop on the pallet stones and escape wheel teeth + Dr.Tillwich 1-3 = Best results for me so far!

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by VWatchie

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Dr.Tillwich 1-3

if we expand beyond the escapement one else to use the oil for?

Is thinking about when I was in school we used 9010 including on the escapement with no Epilam of course. 9020 for the entire rest the gear train and 8300 for everything else. Which is basically what Paco watch manufacturers are recommending light oil heavier oil and a grease.

so for instance I know that Dr.Tillwich  makes a grease I've seen pictures of it it comes in a nice little tube and I don't think it's for a expensive. So in other words the light oil for the escapement in the balance perhaps? There grease for everything else and don't they have another oil like an operable with the numbers are. In other words is newbies came discussion group could we recommend alternative oils that people are happy with. At least when I like with Dr.Tillwich you get really nice spec sheets verse says other companies where it's a bit vague as to what exactly it is. Kinda like anchor oil its cheap and seems of all sorts of variable properties with absolutely no specifications at all.

So basically what would be the alternative is to lubricating a watch? Oh and yes there are other companies producing lubrication the problem is finding and purchasing them. Like the modern replacement for Elgin oil isn't available in this country it was at one time and what was available was way more expensive than the other oil and he was approaching $100 for a small bottle. Which probably explains another reason to not selling it even watchmakers object the cost of oil despite the fact that last for very long time.

[Endeavor]

I'm using the Dr.Tillwich 1-3 and Dr.Tillwich 3-5 oils. As for the grease; Dr. Tillwich B-52.

I attached the specifications of all three.

Acht years ago, when I was trying to compare the Moebius oils with the Dr.Tillwich oils, Dr.Tillwich had on their website down-loadable spec-sheets & application recommendations for every single oil & grease they made, but I could hardly find any decent information about Moebius oils/greases (which made me go Hmmm....). A few years later it seemed that Dr.Tillwich had changed their website and their spec-sheets were hard(er) to find (have they been taken over?)

So far the Dr.Tillwich lubricants have been working fine for me. Obviously if someone rather uses the Moebius oils, he/she should do so

1-3 tk2213en.pdf 3-5 tk2235en.pdf B-52 tf1410en.pdf

Edited May 12, 2023 by Endeavor

[Klassiker]

57 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

I'm using the Dr.Tillwich 1-3 and Dr.Tillwich 3-5 oils. As for the grease; Dr. Tillwich B-52.

Me too, but because I don't use epilame, I started using 9415 on the pallet jewels.

I've got an almost full bottle of 941 which is now redundant, some 8213 braking grease and some Anchor silicon grease for o-rings and gaskets. That's the lot. I don't have any plans to add to the list, either.

Like John, I will use these until they run out or I die, whichever comes first (who am I kidding ), and some of them may even be past their shelf-lives already.

If I was doing this professionally I would do things differently, but I'm not sure it would be better.

[Waggy]

Hi all, late to the discussion, I'm interested to learn about Dr.Tillwich oils as I'd like to think I'm a bit of a rebel and would like to do my bit to break the Moebius (near) monopoly. Could someone do a quick 'cheat sheet on the equivalents so someone like myself can home in on the right Dr.Tillwich equivalents ie:

• 9010 = ?
• HP1300/D5 = ?
• 9415 = ?
• 9504/Moly DX = ?
• Automatic barrel grease = ?
• Mainspring grease = ? 

Do Dr.Tillwich do an epilame for pallet jewels, if so what Dr.Tillwich oil would you use in junction with it?

I know some of this is already mentioned in some of the previous posts in this and other discussions, but I thought it would be nice to have it summarised all together in one place.

[Klassiker]

9010 = 1-3

HP1300/D5 = 3-5

9415 = none; possibly 1-3 instead

9504/Moly DX = B52

Automatic barrel grease = none

Mainspring grease = 3-5 or B52

They do an epilame product called Antispread, but I haven't used it.

[Waggy]

Where is the best place to buy it, I had a quick search on Cousins but didn't see it, but it is there in eBay

[Klassiker]

German material houses. I could check later how to buy from the UK.

[Waggy]

15 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

Automatic barrel grease = none

So what do you use on the automatic barrel?

[Klassiker]

27 minutes ago, Waggy said:

So what do you use on the automatic barrel?

Moebius 8213

[Waggy]

OK thaks

 

[VWatchie]

2 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Like John, I will use these until they run out or I die, whichever comes first (who am I kidding ),

1 hour ago, Klassiker said:

9415 = none; possibly 1-3 instead

Me and @Endeavoruse 1-3 as a replacement for 9415 with great results. Its characteristics are not equivalent but nevertheless.

[Endeavor]

1 hour ago, Klassiker said:

Automatic barrel grease = none

Since we are talking about alternatives to the Moebius, I'm using (and this is not a recommendation, it's just what I ended up with using) ABRO #3 (LG-990) synthetic high pressure Lithium grease, good for in marine environment, temperature range -40 to 500˚F, corrosion resistant, maintains viscosity across full temperature range; gear-boxes etc etc etc.

If you like/need, it comes in bucket-loads and it work for me

Edited May 12, 2023 by Endeavor

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, Klassiker said:

Moebius 8213

Perhaps worth mentioning is that Moebius 8213 (Glissalube A) is meant for brass barrels, whereas 8212 (Glissalube B), is meant for aluminium barrels.

Moebius 8217 and Kluber P125 (the most expensive substance on the planet?) are considered the standard braking greases.

7 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

I'm using (and this is not a recommendation, it's just what I ended up with using) ABRO #3 (LG-990) synthetic high pressure Lithium grease

Wouldn't be a bit surprised if it beats Kluber P125 (€22000/kg) any day.

Edited May 12, 2023 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

Has anyone heard of Microtime watch grease , i aquired an unopen tub of it in a joblot of items. Apparently a British petroleum product made by shell, wondering if i should use it. Maybe some of the UK oldtimers remember it.

[JohnR725]

moebius

3 hours ago, Klassiker said:

almost full bottle of 941 which is now redundant

not redundant? Notice the recommendation currently on this group or specifically this discussion is an oil not a grease. then this is a oil this is what was recommended before 9415. So they went from using 9010 on the escapement then they had 941 then 9415 is for higher frequency because it stays wherever you put it so as an either or situation but knowing watchmakers are cheap or maybe because all the watches are high-frequency now it's only 9415. But the 941 should work fine and I'm curious as to whether we would see an amplitude increase rather than 9415. In other words where they're using the alternative you could use this. Which reminds me an pretty sure I have a bottle of that lurking around here somewhere I should try that I need some watches for experimenting with

5 hours ago, Endeavor said:

but I could hardly find any decent information about Moebius oils/greases (which made me go Hmmm....). A few years later it seemed that Dr.Tillwich had changed their website and their spec-sheets were hard(er) to find (have they been taken over?)

unfortunately I notice the exact same thing. At one time their website had all kinds of tech sheets which a pretty sure I downloaded all of them hopefully. You go there now and yes they do make watch oil but I can't find any specifications at all for anything or even which oils they bake. Plus all distributions to North America are a specific clock shop but when you go there you can't because it's wholesale only. Oh and then there's the other amusing thing have you ever heard of this lubrication Etsyntha Synthetic Oil No. 1-3? Notice it looks familiar where have we seen that before other than the first name? Basically in it may be the US North America thing if you're looking for the oil look for the other name. I do notice you purchase it on Amazon although it looks expensive. There is a website were actually use both names and they have lots of descriptions

https://boley.de/en/shop/3350.dr-tillwich-etsyntha

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Kluber P125 (the most expensive substance on the planet?)

I'm sure I could find all sorts of more expensive substances. then there's definitely a time when stuff should have it expiring date like this substance. I almost never do an automatic at work the last time I did it I went to use this I was not happy at all with its consistency. So I asked if we could get a fresh bottle and instead the owner brought another container from home in basically the same consistency. He insisted it was just flying he needed the stir it up. Then last week are other watchmaker came he works in a remote location. So he went the use it and was commenting that it was apparently gritty or I think basically added hardened up he couldn't even mix it up at all. So it does appear that having expiring date is good to give you a clue that may be Asian purchase new again.

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Microtime watch grease

this brings up the problem of things that don't have expiring dates. The bottle of something you purchased off of eBay that was made when exactly? oh and if you look at the older horological literature there were all sorts of other oils over the years and various watch companies had oils they preferred and you end up with just lots of different oils that we can't identify anymore.

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

made by shell

thinking of shell there is a nice article for you. They had a watch usually whenever I think about buying one there too expensive. But it's an interesting  story of why using the wrong oil isn't in your best interest

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/those-shell-oil-watches-girard-perregaux.82822/

 

oh and thinking of alternative lubricants for watch repair here's a company. Not a lot of technical specifications and the website is entirely in French. But if the Google translate link works the second link at least it's in English. No idea whether it's more expensive were cheaper than the other Swiss oils and who knows where you purchase it anyway but interesting in such things like this exists

http://www.lrcb.ch/produits/produits.html

https://www-lrcb-ch.translate.goog/produits/produits.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Klassiker]

3 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Perhaps worth mentioning...

Of course, but then we drift off into producing exhaustive lists of the "right" lubrication for every possible application, don't we? The OP's question was about oils to start with. I dare say there is a better all-round braking grease than 8213, but I was asked what I use. I have just the one, and I don't even consider it essential. I would use B52 instead, and live with the reduced power-reserve. I only need 8 hours anyway. I would have no reservations whatsoever about using 8213 on aluminium.

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Of course, but then we drift off into producing exhaustive lists of the "right" lubrication for every possible application, don't we? The OP's question was about oils to start with. I dare say there is a better all-round braking grease than 8213, but I was asked what I use. I have just the one, and I don't even consider it essential. I would use B52 instead, and live with the reduced power-reserve. I only need 8 hours anyway. I would have no reservations whatsoever about using 8213 on aluminium.

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that you might think that I'm trying to correct you @Klassiker. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can assure you that I am not and I'm sorry if my post came across as such. I simply wanted to share my limited knowledge about braking grease and thought those present and future newcomers might want to consider some options.

Personally, I always use Kluber P125, but when I've finished my 5-gram can of it, in about 500 years, I think I'll get some "ABRO #3 (LG-990) synthetic high pressure Lithium grease".

[kd8tzc]

Everyone take a deep breath.... talking about oil's is like talking about religion, politics or someone's Mom....

 

[LittleWatchShop]

2 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Everyone take a deep breath.... talking about oil's is like talking about religion, politics or someone's Mom....

 

Sorry, I could not resist...all my oils (tried to come up with a jingle like "all my ex's live in Texas" but failed)

Oh wait!  "All my oils never spoils" sung to All My Ex's Live in Texas

BTW...a little trivia.  The George Strait band was started by my childhood friend (went to school with him K-12) and current friend.  Just saw him a couple of weeks ago.  That steel guitar is him! 

Edited May 12, 2023 by LittleWatchShop