Confused on how to clean the pallet fork/jewels and balance complete

dmonheit · March 30, 2023

Hi,

I have been able to disassemble / re-assemble my old ETA 2824 watch. As it was bought for learning (10 years ago or so), I did it a few times but had absolutely no idea about wearing finger cots, cleaning and oiling Mind you, the watch still runs (if a little fast). The Weishi reading is wild

So, taking the course again now, I am a bit confused about cleaning. Lots of info on cleaning by hand, ultrasonic or cleaning machine. I have an ultrasonic machine, so I am focusing on that. So, the way I see it:

- Get all the parts removed.
- Removed any heavy / ugly grease with pegwood / cleaning buds / naphta.
- place the parts in an appropriate cage.
- Re-attach balance complete to the baseplate for its protection.
- Place all the little cages in the ultrasonic cleaner filled with cleaning solution 1:10 to distilled water.
- run for 10-15 minutes

So here are my questions:

- Should the pallet fork be placed in this first solution (no IPA)?
- The pallet fork does not go to the following IPA rinses. Is this correct? Should I dip this is naphta after the first rinse?
- Is the balance complete dipped into IPA for the second and third cycles? Would this not risk the impulse stone? If so, should I dip the balance complete into naphta and let it dry (air or hairdryer)?
- I see people talking about Onedip (no longer made) and B-Dip, for the pallet fork. Is this in addition to or instead of naphta? Should the balance complete or hairspring go into this as well?

Any advice would be much appreciated! Many thanks in advance!

mikepilk · March 30, 2023

I clean with the balance attached to the mainplate, with shock jewels removed. I put all parts (including pallet) in small containers, then use a plastic holder which makes moving between jars easy.

Is your only rinse IPA? If you are using a water based solution, I would do 2 rinses in distilled water. Blow dry (I use a hairdryer) then a 30s rinse in IPA. Such a short IPA rinse means it's OK to clean the balance and pallet with no danger to the shellac.

I use 4 jars, cleaner, rinse 1, rinse 2, IPA. I run Ultrasonic 5mins in the cleaner (Elma recommend 2-10mins), 2mins in each of the rinses, then 30s IPA. When cleaner 1 becomes discoloured, I switch cleaner 2 to 1 and add new solution to 2.

My ultrasonic is 60W, I find 5 mins enough to clean the parts, though I'm using Elma non water based cleaner and rinse, so it might take a bit longer in water based cleaner.

Anything dipped in naphtha needs an IPA rinse to remove oily residues.

Edited March 30, 2023 by mikepilk

dmonheit · March 30, 2023

Hi

Thanks so much for your reply. Starting to make sense. So a quick dip in IPA wont damage the shellac.

Quick question on the cloudy cleaner 1. So I understood that:

cleaner1 - water based cleaner solution

cleaner2 and cleaner3 - distilled water.

clenaer4 - ipa

Is this correct? So when you move cleaner2 to cleaner1 (after cleaner1 discoloration), do you now add cleaning solution (1:10) etc to cleaner2?

Thanks again,

David

PS Thanks for the tip on cleaning off the naphta with IPA.

JohnR725 · March 30, 2023

52 minutes ago, dmonheit said:

Place all the little cages in the ultrasonic cleaner filled with cleaning solution 1:10 to distilled water.
- run for 10-15 minutes

which cleaner are you using exactly? cleaning is an interesting process is not just cleaning and one rents its cleaning and usually multiple of rinses to reduce the concentration of the cleaner on the plates until the plates are actually clean then usually some form of alcohol.

Then the time it depends on the solution but I would be concerned about 10 to 15 minutes depending upon the cleaner I would try with five and see how that works out for you. But a lot of this depends upon the actual cleaner using.

dmonheit · March 30, 2023

Hi,

I am using "Octopus Special Ultrasonic Cleaner, concentrate for use in ultrasonic cleaner", bought on Amazon. This is a general purpose cleaner for jewelry. I have not bought any watch specific cleaning solutions. Just starting the hobby again and I have spent enough in the last few weeks

10-15 minutes were just a guess. I guess that you are right. I should cut that down to a minimum and slowly increase the time if needed. Thanks for that.

I am finding it quite difficult to actually figure out what the actual composition of these cleaning fluids are (cleaning, rinse 1 and 2 and final rinse). I understand that people have preferences to brands etc, but I can't figure out the basic idea. I had actually thought that 2 and 3 were just IPA... So you are saying that 2 and 3 are actually more dilute versions of the 1:10 solution 1 ?

Thanks for the reply.

D

mikepilk · March 30, 2023

1 hour ago, dmonheit said:

Hi

Thanks so much for your reply. Starting to make sense. So a quick dip in IPA wont damage the shellac.

Quick question on the cloudy cleaner 1. So I understood that:

cleaner1 - water based cleaner solution

cleaner2 and cleaner3 - distilled water.

clenaer4 - ipa

Is this correct? So when you move cleaner2 to cleaner1 (after cleaner1 discoloration), do you now add cleaning solution (1:10) etc to cleaner2?

Thanks again,

David

PS Thanks for the tip on cleaning off the naphta with IPA.

Sorry, a typo by me, when I said " 2mins in each of the cleaners,", I meant 2mins of each in rinses.

The first jar is cleaner, the next 2 are rinses (distilled water in your case). So

Cleaner (Water based cleaner)
Rinse 1 (distilled water)
Rinse 2 (distilled water)
IPA

I change the cleaner when it gets discoloured, but that's quite a lot of watches. Similarly when RInse 1 gets dirty, bin it, put rinse 2 in 1, and add new distilled water to 2. I do this as the cleaning fluid I use is not water based and more expensive. With distilled water you be a bit more liberal.

Edited March 30, 2023 by mikepilk

dmonheit · March 30, 2023

Starting to make sense! Thanks so much for the info.

I have been reading. Elma makes a water based AND a non-water based cleaner. For the non-waterbased cleaner, they also make a rinse solution (which is solvent based). Thus my confusion. I am starting to get it.

They actually say that Elma Suprol Rinse works for BOTH (water and non-water based) and can be used as a water displacer prior to IPA...

So much to learn

Thanks again

grsnovi · March 30, 2023

Here's what I've been using after running the balance complete through the ultrasonic using Elma's wash/rinse. I put the pallet fork in this as well. It seems to be similar to what was "OneDip" I got it from Esslinger's.