Help With Clock Identification Please

[HouseofGeorge]

Hi All.

This is my first foray in working on clocks as I'm more accustomed to working with watches so I'm more familiar with watch repair techniques and identification. With this beauty, unfortunately, it didn't have any brand names on the dial and the back yielded no information either. To access the movement, you have to loosen the screw located on the side of the bezel holding the crystal and lift upwards. 

Next is to remove the hands then the small screws holding down the dial. I guess once that's removed I'll be able to say what brand or manufacturer it is and that is only if there's any informative details on the movement.

So, I'm hoping, before I start taking it apart, that someone may recogise the watch and advise who, what, where, and when it was built? Hopefully there'd be a tech manual in existence. Any information would be appreciated.

Clock is about 85mm wide and 28mm thick. To wind it, you rotate the bezel anti-clockwise. The clock runs and stops so hopefully it just requires a thorough cleaning. Should I be using clock-specific oils/grease or ones for watches should suffice?

Thank you in advance fellow horologists!

Jesse

[watchweasol]

Hi what you have is a dashboard / bulkhead clock,   Some were made by simiths others Swiss made. The only way to tell is open it up and look at the movement. Smiths usually had the name on the dial. I have on which uses the bezel wind and it’s a Swiss movement, open it up and post pictures of the movement.   Cheers

[RichardHarris123]

How is the time set? 

[oldhippy]

You will need to remove the movement from its case. It will have a platform escapement so you will need some pocket watch oil for that, the rest of the movement you should use Windles clock oil. I'll comment further when I see the movement.   

[watchweasol]

They wind by turning the bezel which has a gear ring which turns the stem that winds the watch. Mine is like an over large pocket watch Swiss movement nicely made. Belonged to my Dad off one of his motors.

[HouseofGeorge]

20 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

How is the time set? 

Time can be set by pushing the toggle switch upwards to disengage the winding gears and engage with the hour/minute wheel then turning the bezel to either adjust time forwards or backwards.

[RichardHarris123]

3 minutes ago, HouseofGeorge said:

Time can be set by pushing the toggle switch upwards to disengage the winding gears and engage with the hour/minute wheel then turning the bezel to either adjust time forwards or backwards.

Cool, I had no idea that clocks could be wound a set with the bezel. 

[HouseofGeorge]

20 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You will need to remove the movement from its case. It will have a platform escapement so you will need some pocket watch oil for that, the rest of the movement you should use Windles clock oil. I'll comment further when I see the movement.   

Thanks oldhippy. I've removed the dial and didn't find any maker's mark on the movement. What stopped me from fully disassembling the clock is the knowledge the mainspring has stored power and I'll need to release that slowly. Now, with a wristwatch, that wouldn't be a problem as I can control it with the winding stem as it uncoils or using a screwdriver on the ratchet wheel screw. 

How does one let go of a wound mainspring from a clock that has no winding stem? I think I found the Mainspring Barrel and the Click. Just don't want to prise the bridge just yet in case everything jumps out into outer space.

[oldhippy]

You are going to have to put the movement back in its case minus the dial and hands, when you wind it the click will move so a screw driver or something to hold the click open and let the winder run through your fingers until it runs down. Before you remove the platform I would put something in the train to jam the wheels as sometimes a little power will still be on and you do not want to damage any part when removing the platform.  

[HouseofGeorge]

21 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You are going to have to put the movement back in its case minus the dial and hands, when you wind it the click will move so a screw driver or something to hold the click open and let the winder run through your fingers until it runs down. Before you remove the platform I would put something in the train to jam the wheels as sometimes a little power will still be on and you do not want to damage any part when removing the platform.  

That's a very good tip. So, I've done as you've mentioned and it worked. Didn't have any problems at all and when I was about to give up on finding a makers mark, I had the platform left to separate from the case and lo and behold, it was at the back of the platform. 

It says it's from Observator, Swiss Made. I'm not really familiar with them as I'm more exposed to watches. Perhaps others can enlighten the readers its history?

The  clock is soooooo dirty. My next challenge would be using the correct oil for mainspring, pivots and jewel hole (balance staff). Any tips?

As always, thank you all for your advise.

Cheers.

Jesse

[watchweasol]

As mentioned by OldHippy best oil is windles clock oil.

 

[oldhippy]

Could you post a photo of the complete platform 

About a third down the page a little info about them.

 https://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&letter=O&searchWhere=trademark&searchMode=exact&id=2

[HouseofGeorge]

Here's more photos to what I think the platform is. That's where the Balance Complete and Escapement sits, yeah? I haven't removed the balance spring and escape wheel and fork but they do look okay despite the amount of dirt in its surroundings. 

Thanks.

 

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

As mentioned by OldHippy best oil is windles clock oil.

 

That'll be just one oil for the most part? Pivot Holes? What about mainspring and arbor? Also, would it be the same oil for the end cap jewels for the balance staff? Sorry for the noob questions as this is my first time to work on a clock.

Thanks so much.

[RichardHarris123]

8 minutes ago, HouseofGeorge said:

Here's more photos to what I think the platform is. That's where the Balance Complete and Escapement sits, yeah? I haven't removed the balance spring and escape wheel and fork but they do look okay despite the amount of dirt in its surroundings. 

Thanks.

 

That'll be just one oil for the most part? Pivot Holes? What about mainspring and arbor? Also, would it be the same oil for the end cap jewels for the balance staff? Sorry for the noob questions as this is my first time to work on a clock.

Thanks so much.

No wonder it stop, I haven't worked on a clock either, is it normal for them to get so dirty? 

[HouseofGeorge]

19 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

No wonder it stop, I haven't worked on a clock either, is it normal for them to get so dirty? 

Must've been installed on a rally car.  

Here's a couple more pics. Aside from dirt, it was oily as well. I'm hoping the accumulation of dirt wasn't abrasive enough to ruin the pivot holes or other bits.

[oldhippy]

Normally if the movement is swimming in oil providing the pivots are well oiled little wear will happen to the pivots. That's a good sign with all that dirt because that is telling you a good clean and new oil will be all that is needed and a little adjustment for time keeping. 

[Endeavor]

Just wondering, while you work on your nice clock, whether the lume on the dial and hands are from the radium age ?

[watchweasol]

If the clock was installed in a military vehicle dash board I can imagine the dirt and condition they worked in. But like OHippy said the presence of oil means a good clean and off we go. The dial is most likely to contain radium as its from that era late 30s thro 40s and will have to be treat carefully as it’s condition looks flaky.  I think windles will cover all points regarding the oiling.  Cheers

[HouseofGeorge]

21 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

No wonder it stop, I haven't worked on a clock either, is it normal for them to get so dirty? 

I found out the reason why it got dirty. The flange that allows you to adjust the clock speed came loose thus leaving an opening for dusts and debri to get in. See the before and after pics where one can see the slot opening and the other where I temporarily placed the regulator/flange.

 

19 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Just wondering, while you work on your nice clock, whether the lume on the dial and hands are from the radium age ?

Good point. Will wearing eye protection and dust mask suffice? I've never delved in this area before. 

[watchweasol]

Hi I would suggest wearing both and also gloves when handling the dial, the rest ove the movement either gloves or finger cots.

[Endeavor]

30 minutes ago, HouseofGeorge said:

Good point. Will wearing eye protection and dust mask suffice? I've never delved in this area before. 

Well, I think wearing a full moon-suit will be a tad overdone, but better be aware of it and handle with caution; not to inhale and not to eat a sandwich while handling

Edited March 6, 2023 by Endeavor

[oldhippy]

I never started to glow and I'd been handling dials with old lume for about 30 years.

[Endeavor]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I never started to glow and I'd been handling dials with old lume for about 30 years.

I agree with you, but still, you don't want to challenge your luck if there is no reason for.

Not with the intention to deviated from the thread topic, but when I was a kid we had in our shoe-shop one of these X-ray machines to see if the new shoe was of the correct size. I went back many times to see my own feet. Now, say 60-years later, both my feet are still there

Would I stick them back in? No chance on earth

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Endeavor