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Jewels are over rated?

EastCoastChuck
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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Shane said:

Frequency is just frequency.  This is what I have been assuming all along.  I just didn't see that the length of the spring changes while the balance is oscillating and how amplitude changes the percentage of time the spring is unregulated. 

normally think about the output of a radio and adjust the volume knob up and down the frequencies do not change but a watch is not a radio it has other things influencing the frequency

because of the regulator pins the length of the spring is variable. If you were watch without regulator pins then the like the spring is fixed. Because they hairspring is balancing between the pins depending upon the amplitude and whether it's centered and even whether it's in a crown versus a dial position its contact with the pins will change that conceivably a nonlinear rate and you will have timekeeping changes.

Then there is the escapement when the roller jewel hits the fork it's an impact and now the roller jewel has to unlock the escapement depending upon how that's adjusted in thing is it's still an impact it's still a change of timekeeping and the spring has no real influence on the. At some point in time the balance gets a pulse of energy from the fork that mainspring is not a regulated mainspring it's not a regulated Paul's. It's why they keep trying to design escapement's that you can shrink the influence of time that the escapement has on timekeeping.

even get things such as we go from a dial position to a crown position they hairspring sags when that occurs it causes a beach air because they hairspring sagging actually rotates the balance wheel and the Beta the watch changes in that will affect timekeeping. Plus they hairspring is no longer centered that has timekeeping issues

so we end up with amplitude and regulator pins is a bad thing. As why be better whatever free sprung balance wheel and toss the regulator pins altogether which a lot of the companies do. Figure out a better escapement so the escapement isn't screwing up your timekeeping. On the other hand the lever escapement ask he does quite well all things considered

 

Shane WRT Addict

Shane

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

the spring is variable.

Yes, I am starting to see the dynamics.  John you replied while I was editing my response.  I'm finding it all very interesting.

Thanks

Edited by Shane
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Shane said:

John you replied while I was editing my response.

yes that's one of the minor problems the message board you see a question you start the answer the question maybe don't even get the answer done and five other people post answers well as an exaggeration usually one or two and now your answer may or may not be in sync with their answers

.oh we forgot the mention magnetism. If the balance wheel and/or hairspring is magnetized especially the hairspring the magnetic field causes weird effects sometimes a timing machine you'll see the trace actually go in a sine wave pattern.

So you look at the balance wheel lots hairspring in its absolute pure form and everything should be perfect then you throw in the escapement which screws up things and then you add in the regulator pins which screws up things and then a course extra what influences like the watch moves somebody's playing golf and they had the ball as a big impact on the watch. It's actually a miracle the watches keep time at all in suit of ways but they do quite well for the most part

  • 1 month later...
Shane WRT Addict

Shane

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 6/19/2022 at 12:21 AM, JohnR725 said:

In case you think I'm joking about this I'm not if you have interesting choices of lubrication like for instance anchor oil it's very inexpensive oil much cheaper than the Swiss obvious is a good purchase because it's an expensive. When I originally heard about it it had an interesting characteristic of going bad superfast and basically getting really sticky. So sticky that your watch with stop within weeks of using it.

I purchased a container of anchor oil not necessarily on price even though I felt the cost was reasonable.  It just so happened to be the first hit I found when I started searching for clock supplies.  John R's reply was the first that I heard of this particular problem being associated with anchor oil.  I had wondered why the clocks that I worked on seemed to have time keeping problems and finally stoping all together so soon after I worked on them.  I found much more gratifying results with watches so I turned my attentions mainly in that direction leaving the lifeless clocks where they hung.  Just before reading @JohnR725's reply (that I've quoted above) I rebuilt a small battery powered desk clock with a very finicky escapement.  I used anchor oil and everything was running perfectly but that reply did peak my interest.  I was slowly regulating it and it was getting quite close, needing weeks to notice a reasonable error.  Then all of a sudden my amplitude dropped of to less then 90 degrees and time keeping was out the window.  It spent the whole time under a dust cover so I knew that dust wasn't the problem.  I took it down and inspected the pivots, they looked totally dry.  I reoiled with another oil, set it in motion and walked away.  This evening after returning from work its amplitude is back to normal.  I will reset the time after dinner and see what happens.  If anchor oil is unsuitable for clocks and watches, what is it intended or good for?

Thanks JohnR725.

Now I need to re-rebuild all my other clocks that I have.  This is supposed to be a relaxing hobby, write...

Shane 

Edited by Shane
dadistic Distinguished Member

dadistic

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Shane said:

I  If anchor oil is unsuitable for clocks and watches, what is it intended or good for?

Nothing 🙂

(ducks and runs)

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Shane said:

If anchor oil is unsuitable for clocks and watches, what is it intended or good for?

Yep it was my first oil too. It started to congeal in under a month, i had used it on four watches up to that point . I had to strip back reclean and relube them.  I couldn't see any use for it if it oxidised that quickly and it did go in the bin. 

praezis Distinguished Member

praezis

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Shane said:

If anchor oil is unsuitable for clocks and watches, what is it intended or good for?

Make money with little cost for some Indians.

I would not be surprised if it turns out that Anchor oil is just olive oil (behaves very similar).

Frank

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Shane said:

Now I need to re-rebuild all my other clocks that I have.  This is supposed to be a relaxing hobby, write..

unfortunately from time to time other lubricants will do bad things also. I remember a long time ago seeing a story of a clock shop using D5 which does have natural lubricant in there with the mineral oils. It was going to one bottle a month and they determined that basically one bottle was bad because all the clocks of that time span were having issues. But overall purchasing a known brand lubrication I think you a better success than well mystery oils.

18 hours ago, dadistic said:

Nothing

actually it has two useful properties it has entertainment value for discussion groups were we can discuss wondering what it is. It also has an educational value for somebody who tried to save money to find that they get a painful lesson that this was not the way to do it. 

12 hours ago, praezis said:

I would not be surprised if it turns out that Anchor oil is just olive oil (behaves very similar)

I wonder if there's a simple way to test whether it's all of oil? I'm still disappointed with my bottle as it's still superfluid in the Bob and it's as thin as water which makes me suspicious that mine is not all of oil is very very fluid. But seeing as how they have quality control issues maybe they just put whatever they have handy at the time or maybe they mix it seeing as how they don't actually tell us what it is. On the other hand maybe it's best we not actually know what it is it might be distressing if we knew.

  • Haha 1
Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

unfortunately from time to time other lubricants will do bad things also. I remember a long time ago seeing a story of a clock shop using D5 which does have natural lubricant in there with the mineral oils. It was going to one bottle a month and they determined that basically one bottle was bad because all the clocks of that time span were having issues. But overall purchasing a known brand lubrication I think you a better success than well mystery oils.

actually it has two useful properties it has entertainment value for discussion groups were we can discuss wondering what it is. It also has an educational value for somebody who tried to save money to find that they get a painful lesson that this was not the way to do it. 

I wonder if there's a simple way to test whether it's all of oil? I'm still disappointed with my bottle as it's still superfluid in the Bob and it's as thin as water which makes me suspicious that mine is not all of oil is very very fluid. But seeing as how they have quality control issues maybe they just put whatever they have handy at the time or maybe they mix it seeing as how they don't actually tell us what it is. On the other hand maybe it's best we not actually know what it is it might be distressing if we knew.

I should have actually mixed it with balsamic vinegar and used it as a salad dressing then 😁

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