Torsion clock

[RichardHarris123]

Got this as part of a job lot, probably cost me about 30 pence at the most. 

First question, quality, good, bad or indifferent? 

Second, I want to get it running. Do I need to strip it down or can I try something easier to start with. 

Haven't done a clock before, so plenty more questions to follow. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Got this as part of a job lot, probably cost me about 30 pence at the most. 

First question, quality, good, bad or indifferent? 

Second, I want to get it running. Do I need to strip it down or can I try something easier to start with. 

Haven't done a clock before, so plenty more questions to follow. 

30 pence ! Mate you were robbed you could have bought a mini packet of Haribo for that and had a squeaky voice for half an hour miles more entertainment.

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

30 pence ! Mate you were robbed you could have bought a mini packet of Haribo for that and had a squeaky voice for half an hour miles more entertainment.

Lol sorry matey couldn't resist that one. Its German so i would hazard a guess that its ok and will keep you busy for a while. A very long while if it isn't all there . I definitely  cant help you with this, i have no idea about clocks but intend to have a go at a napoleon Westminster chime i have on my mantle piece. It talks to me when its quiet, it says fix me, fix me please kind sir.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches
Time to take my pills one thinks

[RichardHarris123]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

30 pence ! Mate you were robbed you could have bought a mini packet of Haribo for that and had a squeaky voice for half an hour miles more entertainment.

Since I have used three of the crystals, it was probably less than 10 pence.  So there.

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Since I have used three of the crystals, it was probably less than 10 pence.  So there.

Fine a partially deflated secondhand  helium balloon then, still a squeaky voice but only for 1 minute.  Touchè . Can we get back to watches now or clocks or anything normal really.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[RichardHarris123]

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Fine a partially deflated secondhand  helium balloon then, still a squeaky voice but only for 1 minute.  Touchè 

I'm not tonking on anyone's seconds hand balloon.  I have standards, very low standards maybe but standards all the same. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I'm not tonking on anyone's seconds hand balloon.  I have standards, very low standards maybe but standards all the same. 

Lol. Tonked plenty in my time , but my meaning of tonking is waayyyyyy different from your meaning of tonking . I think our discussion is taking a wrong turn imho, i can sense a time out coming .

[RichardHarris123]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Lol. Tonked plenty in my time , but my meaning of tonking is waayyyyyy different from your meaning of tonking . I think our discussion is taking a wrong turn imho, i can sense a time out coming .

Definitely 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Definitely 

Did you get the file download issue sorted ? You were working on a junghans. I would be interested as i have one to getting working, amongst about 60 others and 15 or so pockets .

[oldhippy]

Its low quality. It will need a complete overhaul. These clocks are very temperamental. If you have never done any clock work, this is the worst type of clock to start with. I can help you with it. For starters you are going to need a clock mainspring winder and this book   Charles Terwilliger Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Did you get the file download issue sorted ? You were working on a junghans. I would be interested as i have one to getting working, amongst about 60 others and 15 or so pockets .

I'm stuck on a piece of pants swiss at mo that just wont run dial up. Ive been meaning to check the top pivot then i can move on with something else. Procrastinating for six days .

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Its low quality. It will need a complete overhaul. These clocks are very temperamental. If you have never done any clock work, this is the worst type of clock to start with. I can help you with it. For starters you are going to need a clock mainspring winder and this book   Charles Terwilliger Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide

What is good OH ? I have a very run of the mill Smith's westminster chime to tackle. It doesnt have enough power to run with the pendulum on. Hope it is just a clean and oil but i think ive buggered up the chime as well. 

[RichardHarris123]

29 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Fine a partially deflated secondhand  helium balloon then, still a squeaky voice but only for 1 minute.  Touchè 

 

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Its low quality. It will need a complete overhaul. These clocks are very temperamental. If you have never done any clock work, this is the worst type of clock to start with. I can help you with it. For starters you are going to need a clock mainspring winder and this book   Charles Terwilliger Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide

Typical, I bought it because I like the fact that you can see the movement.  I could of chosen any, including the fancy one you like.  Anyway I'm having a go. Are clock mainspring winders as ridiculously expensive as watch mainspring winders? 

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'm stuck on a piece of pants swiss at mo that just wont run dial up. Ive been meaning to check the top pivot then i can move on with something else. Procrastinating for six days .

Yes, look at my post on clicks.

[HectorLooi]

3 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Are clock mainspring winders as ridiculously expensive as watch mainspring winders? 

Yes they are and they are hard to come by. But the good news is once you get a complete set of containment rings, you can work on most clocks. Well maybe not Big Ben.

Have a look at Cousins website 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mainspring-winder-ollie-baker-style

In addition to the winder, you'll need a set of let down tools and a beat adjuster.

Your clock might be missing the lower suspension block. But Cousins should have spares for that. 

A 400 day clock is deceptively simply but a real pain to get it going. It's probably the 2nd worst clock for a beginner. 

[RichardHarris123]

2 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Yes they are and they are hard to come by. But the good news is once you get a complete set of containment rings, you can work on most clocks. Well maybe not Big Ben.

Have a look at Cousins website 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mainspring-winder-ollie-baker-style

In addition to the winder, you'll need a set of let down tools and a beat adjuster.

Your clock might be missing the lower suspension block. But Cousins should have spares for that. 

A 400 day clock is deceptively simply but a real pain to get it going. It's probably the 2nd worst clock for a beginner. 

The problem is, I won't be working on more clocks, just that one.  I  thought it would be easy, oh fool me.

[HectorLooi]

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The problem is, I won't be working on more clocks, just that one.  I  thought it would be easy, oh fool me.

Haha. Don't kid yourself. Once you get hooked, you're never going to stop.

[RichardHarris123]

5 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Haha. Don't kid yourself. Once you get hooked, you're never going to stop.

I don't have the room for clocks, that's why I'm doing watches.  

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I don't have the room for clocks, that's why I'm doing watches.  

I wonder how @oldhippy keeps all his clocks. He recently got another 4 clocks. And he keeps cats too!

When I had a stray cat that came to visit my mum every afternoon, she (the cat) would crawl behind my shelves and knock things off. 

[oldhippy]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What is good OH ? I have a very run of the mill Smith's westminster chime to tackle. It doesnt have enough power to run with the pendulum on. Hope it is just a clean and oil but i think ive buggered up the chime as well. 

Most chiming movements need cleaning and re bushing due to wear. Sometimes springs need replacing and always if it has a pendulum replace the suspension spring. 

7 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The problem is, I won't be working on more clocks, just that one.  I  thought it would be easy, oh fool me.

In order to properly service any clock that has its springs in barrels it is a must to have a mainspring winder. The only other way is to remove the spring in what way you can and replace the spring with a new one. Mainspring winders remove springs in such a way that the spring is never distorted. Springs out of shape can and do damage the barrel and will cause the power to be irregular which causes the clock to keep poor time. The strike and chime springs will cause the strike and chime to work in a poor manner.  

[Kalanag]

Kern (Kern und Söhne) is a German manufacturer of annual clocks. The company was founded in 1932 and closed their business in 2011. According to their company profile they produced „high quality, hand made annual clocks“.

Kern website (German only)

[oldhippy]

That clock is not hand made it is factory made, to say it is quality  is a poor joke. 

[Kalanag]

O.K., they should have been writing „assembled manually in high perfection“, right?

„PI“ indicates the movement P 400. The plates should be 54mm x 44mm x 1,3mm.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Kalanag

[clockboy]

As OH states 400 day clocks are temperamental and will not run for a duration without every part being spot on..Example if the suspension spring has the slightest kink it will not run and if the spring is slightly under or over strength you will run out of adjustment. To summarise if you are not prepared to strip, clean and inspect every part you will spend hours fiddling and adjusting without success.  
PS I have moved this post to the Clock section. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by clockboy

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The problem is, I won't be working on more clocks, just that one.  I  thought it would be easy, oh fool me.

 

10 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Haha. Don't kid yourself. Once you get hooked, you're never going to stop.

I said the same about pocket watches. Now look where i am with them 

10 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I don't have the room for clocks, that's why I'm doing watches.  

Mancave Rich mancave. Need i say anymore ?

[watchweasol]

To Attempt to repair 400 day clocks is hard enough but bwithout twerwilligers book, beat setting tool, and knowledge a waste of time as theyare as mentioned tempremental and will not run unless dead level.  They are not the type of clock you fiddle with you either get stuck in and repair the thing which may take days /months to get it working correctly.  On the face of it the mechanisms are simple single train, what can go wrong ? try one snd find out. I have several of these guys and love working on them.  The last one was a Bentima broken spring (the usual problem).  They were factory produced in Germany not overly expensive unless you pock up a Gustav becker (disc Pendulum job).  all the best and gook luck if you attrmpt the repair.