Rolex cal. 1520

[dibs1]

Hi, 

I recently serviced a Rolex cal. 1520 and its running superb through out the day. the one thing I've noticed is the automatic works will not wind the watch fully i get maybe 24 hours if I'm lucky. I've applied epilame properly and lubricated according to oil charts. I feel no resistance or hear any vibrations from the motor and when inspecting it spins freely and winds the watch. Now when I hand wind the watch it holds its power reserve for the rated 40 or so hours. I did hand wind the mainspring into the barrel and tried my best to apply braking grease to the barrel. I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to fix this last nagging issue. I am also not sure what to look for in terms of wear to the reversing wheels. they look clean and the teeth look good on all of them at least to my untrained eye. Furthermore, the axle for the oscillating weight looks to be good as the weight doesn't wiggle and remains on its plane of travel. Let me know if you need any specific pictures of the movement. 

[Kalanag]

If the movement has a decent power reserve when fully wound manually mainspring and barrel seem to be o.k..

When you vertically rotate the movement, does the rotor stay in place or does it completely rotate with the watch?
When you manually wind the watch horizontally, does the rotor rotate?

Edited May 17, 2022 by Kalanag

[Nucejoe]

The rotor in your Rolex should at least meet the following requirement. 

Judging how healthy the reversers are is as you found out not easy. 

 

[dibs1]

6 hours ago, Kalanag said:

If the movement has a decent power reserve when fully wound manually mainspring and barrel seem to be o.k..

When you vertically rotate the movement, does the rotor stay in place or does it completely rotate with the watch?
When you manually wind the watch horizontally, does the rotor rotate?

the rotor seems to rotate freely when and i can even see the click ratchet over appropriately with the motion. Do you think that there isn't enough braking grease mixed with hand winding that there is too much resistance in the barrel for the automatic works to overcome but when doing it by behind I push past the friction. Its the only thing I can think of unless the reversing wheels are worn. I am not sure if my logic is right or flawed. 

12 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

The rotor in your Rolex should at least meet the following requirement. 

Judging how healthy the reversers are is as you found out not easy. 

 

thank you for this, but this rotor doesn't have ball bearings just an axle that rotates on a jeweled post 

[Kalanag]

11 minutes ago, dibs1 said:

the rotor seems to rotate freely when and i can even see the click ratchet over appropriately with the motion. Do you think that there isn't enough braking grease mixed with hand winding that there is too much resistance in the barrel for the automatic works to overcome but when doing it by behind I push past the friction.

If there was to much friction the spring wouldn’t slip, the rotor would follow the vertical rotation of the movement and the ratchet wheel wouldn‘t move.

Furthermore to much friction on the barrel wall would not prevent the mainspring from getting fully wound.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Kalanag

[JohnR725]

7 minutes ago, dibs1 said:

Do you think that there isn't enough braking grease mixed with hand winding that there is too much resistance in the barrel for the automatic works to overcome but when doing it by behind I push past the friction.

When your hand winding the watch up from unwound condition can you feel when you hit the breaking grease? If you get carried away with the right breaking grease and is too much breaking versus slipping you can actually feel when you hit that it's quite a force.

There are several problems with automatic watch's. Like for instance suppose your watches all the way wound down how many times you have to shake it to wind it up? If you can see your ratchet wheel put a Mark on it and start shaking your watch how many times do you have to shake it to even get to rotate one turn of the ratchet wheel?

This is why they usually recommend a watch that's not running at all you given a few turns with the crown just to get things wound up because it takes a heck of a lot of movement of the weight to do any winding at all. This is why a lot of times people by those auto winding devices to keep their watch wound up.

This also comes up and repair shops where they put it on their auto winder to test it and then it goes home with the customer and customers unhappy because it runs out of power a lot of times is because the customer just doesn't move their arms enough.

Unfortunately I did attach a technical information with there is for the watch it does give you some things to check for but it doesn't actually say shake your watch 1 million times and your watch 115 minutes kind of thing so we don't have a specification for how much motion it takes to wind the watch up or even let it run for 24 hours.

 

Rolex technical information 1520-1525.pdf

[dibs1]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

When your hand winding the watch up from unwound condition can you feel when you hit the breaking grease? If you get carried away with the right breaking grease and is too much breaking versus slipping you can actually feel when you hit that it's quite a force.

There are several problems with automatic watch's. Like for instance suppose your watches all the way wound down how many times you have to shake it to wind it up? If you can see your ratchet wheel put a Mark on it and start shaking your watch how many times do you have to shake it to even get to rotate one turn of the ratchet wheel?

This is why they usually recommend a watch that's not running at all you given a few turns with the crown just to get things wound up because it takes a heck of a lot of movement of the weight to do any winding at all. This is why a lot of times people by those auto winding devices to keep their watch wound up.

This also comes up and repair shops where they put it on their auto winder to test it and then it goes home with the customer and customers unhappy because it runs out of power a lot of times is because the customer just doesn't move their arms enough.

Unfortunately I did attach a technical information with there is for the watch it does give you some things to check for but it doesn't actually say shake your watch 1 million times and your watch 115 minutes kind of thing so we don't have a specification for how much motion it takes to wind the watch up or even let it run for 24 hours.

 

Rolex technical information 1520-1525.pdf 458.68 kB · 3 downloads

Hi, thank you very much for this in depth answer. I don't feel really any resistance when winding the watch manually its smooth throughout the winding process and obviously the resistance increases when its getting closer to fully wound but it still easily continues to wind. So I think your explanation of not wearing it enough to prompt a full wind is possible, as I let it die then give it a few turns just to when the second hand starts ticking  and then i wear it for about 8 hours. I think the most likely explanation is that I'm not wearing it enough. I might invest in one of those auto wind testers just to see if in fact the auto works is functioning as it should. Thanks for all your help and time responding to this. 

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, dibs1 said:

thank you for this, but this rotor doesn't have ball bearings just an axle that rotates on a jeweled post 

 You can set up a similar test with just the axle and rotor.

Visual inspection of a rotor is not a valid approach to judge its health.

Rolex rotor should pass this thirty seconds test, thats the least. 

 

 

 

 

So many parameters factor in that analysis for the selfwinder mech of used automatic watches is impractical. 

ETA put out the thirty seconds test, though we are dealing with a Rolex and not ETA, I find the test actually useful for some other movement as well,  It 'll give you an idea of how efficient  the rotor-axle assembly in your watch is, should you find your the assembly enjoys a desent efficiency, you can confidently eliminate one possible cause. 

Inefficency is more likely to develope in the winder module and particularely in reversers or jewels there,  I have been getting good result couple times that I renewed reversers.

We know a problem exist as your watch surely wound much closer to the nominal resevre when new, yet a definite fault can not be identified, it rather is a case of wear in which case the rotor test and replacing the reversers with fresh ones will yield results.