SW200-1 Date jumper/stem not working right.

[BillM]

I just finished building a watch with an SW200-1 movement, everything is brand new.

I trimmed the stem, fit the crown and put the stem in place everything was great, I adjusted the time and the date.

I pulled the stem out again to place a few drops of HP1300 on it and put it back in.

It went in perfectly, or felt perfectly at least, but now the date wont adjust, it just clicks, that and when I pull it out fully is doesn't hack right away like it at first.

Did I somehow break the keyless works. or the date works??  Are these movements really this delicate?

I'm VERY bummed out / frustrated and just have to walk away from it for now.

Either way, I need to fix my brand new unworn watch now and I'm not sure how too, though I have worked on a handful of movements and repaired several, I've never pulled apart an automatic movement before.

I want to fix this myself if possible. I read a thread here awhile back about a 2824-2 with kind of the same issue, but can't seem to find it.

Can someone please help me with this?

Thank you,

Bill

[Nucejoe]

 Bummer indeed but it happens, its only the set lever that has disengaged from selector fork in keyless, nothing broken,  Surest approach to go about fixing it as you know is to remove the dial to get to the keyless.

 

 

[BillM]

8 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 Surest approach to go about fixing it as you know is to remove the dial to get to the keyless.

I actually don’t know, but I’m going to learn, thank you   

 

 

 

[Kalanag]

This might be the thread you are looking for:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/21952-eta-2824-clone-stem-won’t-go-back/#comment-184630

[BillM]

Thank you, that is the thread. 
I was looking for the comment about a YouTube video by someone named Mark that showed how to fix this issue.  

[BillM]

So I took the watch apart and inspected the keyless works. At first it looked like the set lever was out of position, so I took the keyless apart and carefully put it back together.  At one point I could not get the stem back in, but finely got it.

After putting everything back the calendar still wont work, the gear that drives it will not move forward far enough to engage the part that advances the ring. Something is not right, but I don't know what it is. Did I bend something?

I've attached 3 photos, 1. Wind position. 2. Calendar position and 3. Set position.

Any clue what's wrong here?

Thanks,

Bill

[Kalanag]

The setting lever looks bent.

How does the date corrector stop moving? Does it disengage from the setting wheel and stop rotating?

Edited May 4, 2022 by Kalanag

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

The setting lever looks bent.

YES,  I think you nailed it Kalanag, the bend stops the keyless to fully position in quick set. 

10 hours ago, BillM said:

 

Not fully in quick set position.

[BillM]

It looks like the setting wheel never moves forward enough to engage the gear that is supposed to turn the date corrector.  The date corrector just doesn’t turn at all.  Sorry about my terminology, still learning here, ( obviously).  

[BillM]

I have a hard believing that setting lever got bent during the stem assembly / removal process. That’s sheet metal and on a corner, I was pretty darn careful, clearly not careful enough, but dang, seems like that would take a lot of force to bend the corner up like that. 
It also looks like that bend prevents the setting lever from sliding to far under the setting lever jumper.  (1st photo).  But who am I do say?, just guessing here. 
I’d love to see a photo of the keyless works form a working assembly to compare with.  

 

[Kalanag]

Here is a good video of the 2824-2 which is mainly the same: 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Kalanag

[Nucejoe]

 I think it be alright if you tucked the bent portion under the  combined setting jumper، just to see if the quick set works then.

You are right ,  takes more than  a stem insertion to bend the spring like that. 

[Kalanag]

 

[BillM]

Thank you for the videos, after looking at that last one it looks like the yoke in my works is not in the right position when I stet it to the date corrector position.

I've disassembled and reassembled this keyless works several times now and can't figure out why the date corrector is still not working right.

The set lever is defiantly not bent (lighting made it look like that).

Here's a few more photos of all the parts, the set lever and one of the keyless in the date corrector position with an arrow pointing to the yoke position.

When assembled, the setting wheel does not turn the date corrector and the yoke snaps back and forth as the castle gear actuates.

I'm stumped.

 

[ifibrin]

Things to consider:

Is your winding pinion in the correct orientation with the teeth facing the right way?

Is the winding pinion correctly fitted with the hacking lever?

Is the yoke in the groove of the winding pinion?

Is the spring of the setting lever engaging the yoke?

Is the setting wheel facing the right direction? The teeth of the setting wheel is angled on one face, and the angled face should be facing up.

Have you reinstalled the motion work plate and screwed it down tight? The setting wheel will not engage properly without it. The setting wheel should be flush against the motion work plate when screwed down.

Edited May 5, 2022 by ifibrin

[BillM]

I will step through your list of questions when I work on it again tomorrow, thank you very much for the input. 
Bill. 

[Kalanag]

Looking at your last pic and comparing to the video it seems to me that the joke is bent! This prevents the setting pinion from reaching its final position and driving the date corrector.

your pic

 

video snapshot

The joke is very skinny at this end and can be bent easily imho.

 

I found an original drawing which also shows that your joke is bent:

Look at this! It‘s your movement with your keyless works animated! 

 https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/22385-interactive-3d-watch/#comment-189043

Edited May 5, 2022 by Kalanag

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Looking at your last pic and comparing to the video it seems to me that the joke is bent!

I don't know.  Here is a picture of the equivalent part for an eta 2824.

You say it is not hacking. Is it possible that the hacking lever (on the other side) has dislodged and restricting movement of the keyless works components?

[BillM]

The hacking lever in still in place and it does hack, but I have to pull the stem out with more force than seems normal to get it to hack. 
Im betting the bent yoke is causing that to be difficult too, if in fact the yoke is bent.   
that animation is excellent, watched it several times, thank you. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by BillM
Add content

[Nucejoe]

Bend or file the end of the yoke ( Kalanag has shown) so the end slides into the groove easy and grease the end.

9 hours ago, Kalanag said:

 

 

 

 

Just now, Nucejoe said:

Bend or file the end of the yoke ( Kalanag has shown) so the end slides into the groove easy and grease the end.

 

If it didn't work! you probably need a new return bar.

[BillM]

On 5/4/2022 at 6:49 PM, ifibrin said:

Things to consider:

Is your winding pinion in the correct orientation with the teeth facing the right way?  YES

Is the winding pinion correctly fitted with the hacking lever? YES

Is the yoke in the groove of the winding pinion? YES

Is the spring of the setting lever engaging the yoke? YES

Is the setting wheel facing the right direction? The teeth of the setting wheel is angled on one face, and the angled face should be facing up. YES

Have you reinstalled the motion work plate and screwed it down tight? The setting wheel will not engage properly without it. The setting wheel should be flush against the motion work plate when screwed down. YES

Yes to every consideration statement above.

OK So I went through everything again.

I double checked that the hacking lever is in place, and it is.

Just so I am clear, the castle gear is what is supposed to engage the setting wheel, which then turns the date corrector right? (See photo). Because mine is not doing that because the yoke is preventing it for moving forward far enough to make engagement.

If the Yoke is bent, I am not sure where to start bending it back to make it work better.

There's a lot going on in that little area between the yoke and the setting lever .See photo 

Maybe the best thing is for me to buy a new yoke and see if that fixes the issue.

Edited May 6, 2022 by BillM

[HectorLooi]

It looks like it's bent at that 90 degree bend ( looks like the hip joint of a Smurf's leg ). That spot looks like it might be fatigued and may break if you bend it back. But you can try bending it back and if it breaks, then you order a replacement.

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

looks like the hip joint of a Smurf's leg

Wtf. This statement needs some verification Hector. It's not blue for starters. You now have me trawling through smurf cartoons, and you're responsible for extending my cuppa break

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Wtf. This statement needs some verification Hector. It's not blue for starters. You now have me trawling through smurf cartoons, and you're responsible for extending my cuppa break

Yep. I'll give you that one , good call mate. You now have me watching Papa smurf and Gargamel Duke it out . Cheers I did have work to do today

[Kalanag]

11 hours ago, BillM said:

…If the Yoke is bent, I am not sure where to start bending it back to make it work better...

 

For me the bending point is here:

[Nucejoe]

12 hours ago, BillM said:

Just so I am clear, the castle gear is what is supposed to engage the setting wheel, which then turns the date corrector right? (See photo). Because mine is not doing that.

Your watch  ""  IS   """   doing that.  

 because If the castle pinion didn't engage with setting wheel, then setting time wouldn't have worked neither but thats not the problem with this keyless. The issue your facing is that the end of the yoke ( previously shown)  which is to enter the groove  (on mainplate)  and move the corrector towards the setting wheel  till corrector engages with the setting wheel,  doesn't want to enter the groove peacefully and only does so when you force it, which is why you had to pull the stem hard to get the corrctor engaged. So whatever you do, be it unbending or filing etc,  to repair the yoke should result in easy entery of the yoke end into the groove. 

Before buying another yoke, do this test: push the yoke end with pegwood so it enters the groove , it should and will then move towards the setting wheel easy by action of winding stem.