Help with my BENRUS (no moment number on case, but it looks like a Citation Model)

[MF60]

Thanks for the kind welcomes in the introductions forum!  Also for the advice, but now I must post what the problems are but no diagnosis and the causes.

I appreciated the information on what battery would replace the Watch Battery 343 which was on the last battery I had in the watch.  It would have been a mercury battery and those are no longer sold.

One kind soul suggested an AG 10 would work, and I went to Batteries Plus to pick one up.  They assured me a 389 RENATA is the equivalent and it's listed as a Silver Oxide 1.5 watch battery.  The dimensions were the same (diamter and thickness) as the 343.  I was excited to see if it would produce movement.  But it did not.  I also moved the hand with the stem but no movement happened.

I attached a photo of something I noticed about 25-30 years ago when I set the watch aside, which could be a clue.  There is a 3-pronged electrode inside the case, that sits almost flush to the inside atop what looks like gold colored mylar.  I suppose that's an insulator.  But, the electrode can swing side-to-side.  I moved it carefully to one side for the photo.  The 3-pronged electrode on the battery cover is mounted in the center.  It occurs to me that the electode inside the caseing could be the issue but I have no experience here.

I also took a photo closeup of the BENRUS case.  Two lines below the stamped name it is stamped "OPEN THRU CRYSTAL".

Maybe fools rush in where angels fear to tread.  I have seen watch crystal lifts, but don't own one.  I know I would need that and some tools to begine this.  It will of course have repairs beyond my newbie abilities.  ShouldI gather a few tools and learn now?  I'm not in a hurry and I certainly know a tool or tools is not part os the repair cost.  But if  buy the tools and treat this what like a medical cadaver to learn some things is that worthwhile?

And maybe, just maybe, I can bring Frankenstein back to life.

Mark

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, MF60 said:

But, the electrode can swing side-to-side

If that can slide easily side to side that's a problem. That your negative power contact That is supposed to go to the circuit board and should make a nice firm connection it shouldn't move.

 

[HectorLooi]

A 344 has the same dimensions as a 343. That's what I use in my Accutron 214s. Is this an electromechanical balance watch or a tuning fork watch?

[MF60]

7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

If that can slide easily side to side that's a problem. That your negative power contact That is supposed to go to the circuit board and should make a nice firm connection it shouldn't move.

 

Yes, it easily slides back and forth and when a battery goes in, I think as the case cover is screwed down, the negative power contact moves.  I suspected that was the issue because then when the cover is opened and the battery is removed the negative electrode has moved.  It also seems the negative electrode is more “flattened”, like there is no springiness to it.

Would you think it’s repairable by a newbie?  I suppose I need to disassemble and replace a component?  

Thanks for looking and commenting!

mark

 

[MF60]

6 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

A 344 has the same dimensions as a 343. That's what I use in my Accutron 214s. Is this an electromechanical balance watch or a tuning fork watch?

I don’t know how to tell the difference.  I don’t know the model number. The face shows BENRUS Electronic, and I suspect it is a Citation Series from searches on Google.  But I think the model number or serial number is only seen if the watch is disassembled.

thanks for the info on the dimensions.

Mark

[Neverenoughwatches]

25 minutes ago, MF60 said:

Yes, it easily slides back and forth and when a battery goes in, I think as the case cover is screwed down, the negative power contact moves.  I suspected that was the issue because then when the cover is opened and the battery is removed the negative electrode has moved.  It also seems the negative electrode is more “flattened”, like there is no springiness to it.

Would you think it’s repairable by a newbie?  I suppose I need to disassemble and replace a component? 

Thanks for looking and commenting!

mark

 

Hi mf60. It does look like the contact has broken away. Was the watch stored away along with its battery still inside. If so there is a good chance some leakage of the battery may have also occurred. 

[HectorLooi]

http://www.crazywatches.pl/benrus-electronic-esa9154-1970

Have a look at this movement. It has the same 3 pronged battery contact as your watch.

But we won't know for sure until you get the watch open.

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

http://www.crazywatches.pl/benrus-electronic-esa9154-1970

Have a look at this movement. It has the same 3 pronged battery contact as your watch.

But we won't know for sure until you get the watch open.

Wow that looks like some pretty complex stuff HectorLooi.  What is the copper  under the balance  wheel please ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

http://www.crazywatches.pl/benrus-electronic-esa9154-1970

Have a look at this movement. It has the same 3 pronged battery contact as your watch.

But we won't know for sure until you get the watch open.

I don't think I need to guess that mf60 has really got his work cut out if that is what is inside his watch.

[JohnR725]

While it probably is the 9154 it could be the 9150. Or might be one of the ones found at the first link you can pick and choose. But more than likely at the second link you scroll down until you get to ESA Dynotron. Unfortunately the ones in the pictures here have the battery strap which because of this case doesn't need this rap so we can't see the negative contact.

Then if you decide to service the watch I'm including the technical sheets.  9154 refers you back to the 9150 tech sheet which is why you need both of them. It also noticed that both of them have the exact same negative battery contact. Held in place with the screw that conceivably could be loose. The other problem is when was the last time the watch was last serviced? Watches of this type do not tolerate old lubrication a half be very very free to work otherwise they don't run.

https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-gallery/

https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/transistorised/

3540_ETA 9154.pdf ESA 9150.pdf

[JohnR725]

Here's another source of information on the watch movement you have. If you look at the first page basically this is more or less the contents of a book on the website. Although it's much nicer in the book form than the website.

https://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/index.html

https://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/h1.html

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, MF60 said:

Thanks for the kind welcomes in the introductions forum!  Also for the advice, but now I must post what the problems are but no diagnosis and the causes.

I appreciated the information on what battery would replace the Watch Battery 343 which was on the last battery I had in the watch.  It would have been a mercury battery and those are no longer sold.

One kind soul suggested an AG 10 would work, and I went to Batteries Plus to pick one up.  They assured me a 389 RENATA is the equivalent and it's listed as a Silver Oxide 1.5 watch battery.  The dimensions were the same (diamter and thickness) as the 343.  I was excited to see if it would produce movement.  But it did not.  I also moved the hand with the stem but no movement happened.

I attached a photo of something I noticed about 25-30 years ago when I set the watch aside, which could be a clue.  There is a 3-pronged electrode inside the case, that sits almost flush to the inside atop what looks like gold colored mylar.  I suppose that's an insulator.  But, the electrode can swing side-to-side.  I moved it carefully to one side for the photo.  The 3-pronged electrode on the battery cover is mounted in the center.  It occurs to me that the electode inside the caseing could be the issue but I have no experience here.

I also took a photo closeup of the BENRUS case.  Two lines below the stamped name it is stamped "OPEN THRU CRYSTAL".

Maybe fools rush in where angels fear to tread.  I have seen watch crystal lifts, but don't own one.  I know I would need that and some tools to begine this.  It will of course have repairs beyond my newbie abilities.  ShouldI gather a few tools and learn now?  I'm not in a hurry and I certainly know a tool or tools is not part os the repair cost.  But if  buy the tools and treat this what like a medical cadaver to learn some things is that worthwhile?

And maybe, just maybe, I can bring Frankenstein back to life.

Mark

Some great help has come through  for you mate. Fingers crossed it's a simple fix. But your first job is to get that movement out safely to see what is going on. That might be a task in itself  you're just starting out. I would think your first step is deciding if you do need a crystal lift to do it.Good Bergeons ones are going to run you 100 quid or so , second hand 50 if you are very lucky or cheap Chinese 20 quid and possibly a few others in between. So I'm hoping there's another way for you.

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Here's another source of information on the watch movement you have. If you look at the first page basically this is more or less the contents of a book on the website. Although it's much nicer in the book form than the website.

https://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/index.html

https://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/h1.html

Are you talking to me yet John ? Come on mate let's hug and make up. You know you love really, I know you do. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

36 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Here's another source of information on the watch movement you have. If you look at the first page basically this is more or less the contents of a book on the website. Although it's much nicer in the book form than the website.

https://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/index.html

https://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/h1.html

John. Come on behave, stop blanking me it's getting a bit silly now. I know you want to make up with me and you're frightened how our relationship is going to progress. I'll be gentle from now on I promise. I mean it I'll privately message you everyday, telling you how much you mean to me and that my world isn't the same without you in it. I'll write poems about you. If that doesn't  work you're going to have some explaining to do to your partner about all the chocolates and flowers I'm going to send you. Come on I know you've got a little smile starting to appear, come on let's see them pearly whites. Just a little one please

[HectorLooi]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Wow that looks like some pretty complex stuff HectorLooi.  What is the copper  under the balance  wheel please ?

That copper thing is the drive coil. The magnet is on the balance wheel itself.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

That copper thing is the drive coil. The magnet is on the balance wheel 

There is an awful lot going on In there. I wonder if it's worth all the effort for what gain ? Ok you don't have to wind it up, but how is it better than just a quartz set up ? Old tech for longer battery life ? Solar and Kinetic can last up to 10 years. 

[HectorLooi]

It's purely for diehard aficionados. 

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

John. Come on behave, stop blanking me it's getting a bit silly now. I know you want to make up with me and you're frightened how our relationship is going to progress. I'll be gentle from now on I promise. I mean it I'll privately message you everyday, telling you how much you mean to me and that my world isn't the same without you in it. I'll write poems about you. If that doesn't  work you're going to have some explaining to do to your partner about all the chocolates and flowers I'm going to send you. Come on I know you've got a little smile starting to appear, come on let's see them pearly whites. Just a little one please

I am confused here?

What makes you think I'm ignoring you?

My fun in this group is sharing knowledge with people who need help do you need help? Okay to be more specific people who need help with watch repair I'm not a psychiatrist. Out of curiosity where is the current discussion that you have going that I'm ignoring on a problem you're having with a watch? But as a warning I don't answer every single question I don't even read every single question. Depending upon time availability of though through the list and see if I can answer any of the questions that no one else is answered. Or if I find the subject interesting or something that I more knowledgeable I will look into that otherwise I ignore a lot of things on this message board. So where's the watch that you're having a problem with so we can look into that problem that I supposedly ignoring?

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

There is an awful lot going on In there. I wonder if it's worth all the effort for what gain ? Ok you don't have to wind it up, but how is it better than just a quartz set up ? Old tech for longer battery life ? Solar and Kinetic can last up to 10 years. 

Once again I'm being confused? Why am I being confused? Here's a question throw away watches Timex for instance or basically any of the pin lever mechanical watches never meant to be service sort of. Some of them do have screws some like Timex Have service manuals. But typically Timex servicing at one time they just used to swap the movements. So why is that their people on this group wasting their time servicing throw away watches? Could it be because that's their fun?  Because that is there fun they're not wasting their time there having fun why should we judge people for whatever it is they want to repair?

5 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

It's purely for diehard aficionados. 

Isn't that what a lot of watch repair is about?

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

13 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I am confused here?

What makes you think I'm ignoring you?

My fun in this group is sharing knowledge with people who need help do you need help? Okay to be more specific people who need help with watch repair I'm not a psychiatrist. Out of curiosity where is the current discussion that you have going that I'm ignoring on a problem you're having with a watch? But as a warning I don't answer every single question I don't even read every single question. Depending upon time availability of though through the list and see if I can answer any of the questions that no one else is answered. Or if I find the subject interesting or something that I more knowledgeable I will look into that otherwise I ignore a lot of things on this message board. So where's the watch that you're having a problem with so we can look into that problem that I supposedly ignoring?

Once again I'm being confused? Why am I being confused? Here's a question throw away watches Timex for instance or basically any of the pin lever mechanical watches never meant to be service sort of. Some of them do have screws some like Timex Have service manuals. But typically Timex servicing at one time they just used to swap the movements. So why is that their people on this group wasting their time servicing throw away watches? Could it be because that's their fun?  Because that is there fun they're not wasting their time there having fun why should we judge people for whatever it is they want to repair?

Isn't that what a lot of watch repair is about?

 

 

Hello John. I am so pleased to hear from you. No I'm not having  a watch problem at the moment, well I am but that's for later. And yes I probably do need psychiatric help . I was referring to two days ago , when you said you vaguely remember being scolded (that was me) and you said beginner's also need to be more tolerant. And I agreed. I was hoping you might have replied to me soon after. But now you're  talking to me I am happy .  You have made me very happy this evening knowing that I have a very clever,understanding and humorous watch repair buddy.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

I am confused here?

What makes you think I'm ignoring you?

My fun in this group is sharing knowledge with people who need help do you need help? Okay to be more specific people who need help with watch repair I'm not a psychiatrist. Out of curiosity where is the current discussion that you have going that I'm ignoring on a problem you're having with a watch? But as a warning I don't answer every single question I don't even read every single question. Depending upon time availability of though through the list and see if I can answer any of the questions that no one else is answered. Or if I find the subject interesting or something that I more knowledgeable I will look into that otherwise I ignore a lot of things on this message board. So where's the watch that you're having a problem with so we can look into that problem that I supposedly ignoring?

Once again I'm being confused? Why am I being confused? Here's a question throw away watches Timex for instance or basically any of the pin lever mechanical watches never meant to be service sort of. Some of them do have screws some like Timex Have service manuals. But typically Timex servicing at one time they just used to swap the movements. So why is that their people on this group wasting their time servicing throw away watches? Could it be because that's their fun?  Because that is there fun they're not wasting their time there having fun why should we judge people for whatever it is they want to repair?

Isn't that what a lot of watch repair is about?

 

 

No I agree with you there, watch repair is fun, repairing anything that was made to have some use and having back as it once was is fantastic.  I was meaning what was the idea of having  battery power as well as a mechanical oscillator ?

[JohnR725]

20 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I was meaning what was the idea of having  battery power as well as a mechanical oscillator ?

The evolution of electric watches. Yes they started with balance wheels. But what about?

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Kinetic

Were talking about a quartz watch with a rotor like on an automatic watch running a generator to charge a battery to run the quartz watch isn't that a little bit insane?

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

The evolution of electric watches. Yes they started with balance wheels. But what about?

Were talking about a quartz watch with a rotor like on an automatic watch running a generator to charge a battery to run the quartz watch isn't that a little bit insane?

So the electric was a predecessor of the quartz then .

Kinetic has a longer battery life. 10 years as opposed  to 3-5 ? Rechargeable batteries as opposed  to non rechargeable 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I am confused here?

What makes you think I'm ignoring you?

My fun in this group is sharing knowledge with people who need help do you need help? Okay to be more specific people who need help with watch repair I'm not a psychiatrist. Out of curiosity where is the current discussion that you have going that I'm ignoring on a problem you're having with a watch? But as a warning I don't answer every single question I don't even read every single question. Depending upon time availability of though through the list and see if I can answer any of the questions that no one else is answered. Or if I find the subject interesting or something that I more knowledgeable I will look into that otherwise I ignore a lot of things on this message board. So where's the watch that you're having a problem with so we can look into that problem that I supposedly ignoring?

Once again I'm being confused? Why am I being confused? Here's a question throw away watches Timex for instance or basically any of the pin lever mechanical watches never meant to be service sort of. Some of them do have screws some like Timex Have service manuals. But typically Timex servicing at one time they just used to swap the movements. So why is that their people on this group wasting their time servicing throw away watches? Could it be because that's their fun?  Because that is there fun they're not wasting their time there having fun why should we judge people for whatever it is they want to repair?

Isn't that what a lot of watch repair is about?

 

 

Have you forgiven me then ?

[MF60]

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi mf60. It does look like the contact has broken away. Was the watch stored away along with its battery still inside. If so there is a good chance some leakage of the battery may have also occurred. 

No I don't think leakage occurred because I noticed that looseness many years ago and I kept the old battery in case I could ever find an identical.  I had stored the watch and battery for many years.  It would be interesting to find out when those mercury batteries were banned.  I doubt that I knew that battery had contained mercury.  It's stiing here next to me on the desk as I type it, next to the new RENATA 389 Silver Oxide battery.  The old battery is a Union Carbide WATCH 343.

I had already tested the old battery with my old battery with my ZTS Pulse Load tester but I tested both again and the RENATA 389 came up to 100% on the tester but the Uion Carbide was dead.

 

[MF60]

14 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi mf60. It does look like the contact has broken away. Was the watch stored away along with its battery still inside. If so there is a good chance some leakage of the battery may have also occurred. 

AS I recall that contac was loose many years ago and perhaps that was the problem all along.  It was stored with the battery in it for a while, after I noticed the contact issue.  That was many moons ago.