Ackro watch history

[Neverenoughwatches]

Hi . I bought this a little while ago in a job lot. It came with a lovely Smiths dress watch, it didn't look much and I thought it was just added to make up the numbers. After cleaning it and making it run  I kind of like it in a beater sort of way. Ive tried to date it, but I'm coming up short.  All I have is Oberon Watch Company, may have been just one of their dial names. Constructa, and Interpol is also mentioned if anyone has one of those. Ronda movement ? RG is printed on the barrel Bridge but nothing  else relavant. Thanks

[WatchMaker]

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Is this an Ebosa 65? That would date it to mid 1950s.

[Neverenoughwatches]

36 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Is this an Ebosa 65? That would date it to mid 1950s.

Wow that old ! Will I find it on ranfft. Then if I need a mainspring etc. And I might be able to get some history from calibre Someone suggested a ronda . Thank you Watchmaker 

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Wow that old ! Will I find it on ranfft. Then if I need a mainspring etc. And I might be able to get some history from calibre Someone suggested a ronda . Thank you Watchmaker 

Al it has on it is RG

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Is this an Ebosa 65? That would date it to mid 1950s. 

Absolutely  bang on WM. 20 years older than I expected.  Really appreciate  your help on that. Have you worked on ?

[WatchMaker]

Hi again @Neverenoughwatches

Information on Ebosa is sparse and Ackro doesn't appear in Mikrolisk's comprehensive list of trademarks.

There's some basic information at https://watch-wiki.org/index.php?title=Ebosa_S.A. if you let your browser take the strain on translation. Could the 'RG' signify R.Glocker since this family owned Ebosa?

Maybe to confirm you have an Ebosa - and assuming this is a 10.5 ligne* sized movement too - then take a look at the keyless works. [*Bestfit lists the 65 as a 10.5 ligne movement but Ranfft indicates it also came in an 11.5 ligne size].

This is the silhouette of the keyless works from Bestfit:

You ask if I've worked on this movement type ... and I don't believe I have. However given your post history on this forum indicating a good experience level I don't think this movement will throw up challenges. Just take pics as you go along in the disassembly since information is clearly sparse.

Noting that Cousins does stock a few parts for the Ebosa.

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi again @Neverenoughwatches

Information on Ebosa is sparse and Ackro doesn't appear in Mikrolisk's comprehensive list of trademarks.

There's some basic information at https://watch-wiki.org/index.php?title=Ebosa_S.A. if you let your browser take the strain on translation. Could the 'RG' signify R.Glocker since this family owned Ebosa?

  - and assuming this is a 10.5 ligne* sized movement too - then take a look at the keyless works. [*Bestfit lists the 65 as a 10.5 ligne movement but Ranfft indicates it also came in an 11.5 ligne size].

This is the silhouette of the keyless works from Bestfit:

You ask if I've worked on this movement type ... and I don't believe I have. However given your post history on this forum indicating a good experience level I don't think this movement will throw up challenges. Just take pics as you go along in the disassembly since information is clearly sparse.

Noting that Cousins does stock a few parts for the Ebosa.

Thank you Watchmaker. I found it on ranfft, the same movement exactly bang on thank you apart from the long indicator on the regulator, mine doesn't have. It just needed a clean really and has been running well for a while now with good amplitude. It was good to work on, no problems. Needs a new crystal though. Only been repairing 6 months maybe on and off and only been on the forum just over a week, my posing is a bit prolific tbh as I do enjoy it. I appreciate  the time you've taken to help me date it, very kind of you.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[balaton]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:20 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi . I bought this a little while ago in a job lot. It came with a lovely Smiths dress watch, it didn't look much and I thought it was just added to make up the numbers. After cleaning it and making it run  I kind of like it in a beater sort of way. Ive tried to date it, but I'm coming up short.  All I have is Oberon Watch Company, may have been just one of their dial names. Constructa, and Interpol is also mentioned if anyone has one of those. Ronda movement ? RG is printed on the barrel Bridge but nothing  else relavant. Thanks

 

 

Interesting topic, @Neverenoughwatches and here are my contributions to the brand names you mention:

First up, my Ackro running on a 1j Baumgartner 866 with crown at “4”. The wordmark typeface is slightly different from yours, but I’ve little doubt they are the same brand. Some previous research (now lost) on mine indicated that the “Ackro” name was given to watches imported and sold by Gaumont Watch Co of Manchester, England.

Next up, my Constructa running on a 21j Ebosa 65. IIRC, Constructa is, or was, the company owned by Mondaine for the production of watches with pin lever movements.

Last up of this unholy trinity is my Interpol, again with the mighty 1j Baumgartner 866. An awful watch which, with some hundreds of more deserving cases, I’ve never been in a hurry to have restored, nor am I likely to.

And now, at the risk of courting controversy, I’d like to return to the movement in your own Ackro and suggest that, rather than an Ebosa 65, it more closely resembles an Oberon. To all intents and purposes these movements look pretty much identical apart from minor differences to the balance cock which perhaps become more apparent when viewed side by side as per these two Ranfft images:

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Oberon (ranfft.de)

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Ebosa 65 (ranfft.de)

including the semi-circular cut-out at the end of the balance cock which, in the case of the Oberon, is shorter and deeper than that of the Ebosa 65. Unfortunately Ranfft doesn’t show an image of the Oberon’s keyless works, and a movement holder tab is obscuring the cut-out of your movement. Also, whilst not wishing to rain on anyone’s parade, I would add a note of caution to the extent that whilst Ranfft dates his illustration of the Ebosa 65 to around 1955, it is generally acknowledged that such movements could continue in use long after the specific example shown in his archive. For what it’s worth, the dial style of your own watch suggests to me a date somewhere between the late ‘60s and the mid-‘70s.

To conclude this yawn-tastic post, perhaps you’ll forgive me if I include some final images, firstly of my 21j Oberon movement which lives inside a Josmar and, lastly, of my only example of a watch made by the little-documented Oberon Watch Co, inside which lives, er, a 17j Brac 903 (!)

Regards.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, balaton said:

 

 

Interesting topic, @Neverenoughwatches and here are my contributions to the brand names you mention:

First up, my Ackro running on a 1j Baumgartner 866 with crown at “4”. The wordmark typeface is slightly different from yours, but I’ve little doubt they are the same brand. Some previous research (now lost) on mine indicated that the “Ackro” name was given to watches imported and sold by Gaumont Watch Co of Manchester, England.

Next up, my Constructa running on a 21j Ebosa 65. IIRC, Constructa is, or was, the company owned by Mondaine for the production of watches with pin lever movements.

Last up of this unholy trinity is my Interpol, again with the mighty 1j Baumgartner 866. An awful watch which, with some hundreds of more deserving cases, I’ve never been in a hurry to have restored, nor am I likely to.

And now, at the risk of courting controversy, I’d like to return to the movement in your own Ackro and suggest that, rather than an Ebosa 65, it more closely resembles an Oberon. To all intents and purposes these movements look pretty much identical apart from minor differences to the balance cock which perhaps become more apparent when viewed side by side as per these two Ranfft images:

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Oberon (ranfft.de)

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Ebosa 65 (ranfft.de)

including the semi-circular cut-out at the end of the balance cock which, in the case of the Oberon, is shorter and deeper than that of the Ebosa 65. Unfortunately Ranfft doesn’t show an image of the Oberon’s keyless works, and a movement holder tab is obscuring the cut-out of your movement. Also, whilst not wishing to rain on anyone’s parade, I would add a note of caution to the extent that whilst Ranfft dates his illustration of the Ebosa 65 to around 1955, it is generally acknowledged that such movements could continue in use long after the specific example shown in his archive. For what it’s worth, the dial style of your own watch suggests to me a date somewhere between the late ‘60s and the mid-‘70s.

To conclude this yawn-tastic post, perhaps you’ll forgive me if I include some final images, firstly of my 21j Oberon movement which lives inside a Josmar and, lastly, of my only example of a watch made by the little-documented Oberon Watch Co, inside which lives, er, a 17j Brac 903 (!)

Regards.

That's really good of you balaton. Tbh I did think it looked 20 years younger than 1955. What about the only lettering on the mainplate rg. It was suggest r glocker  the owner of ebosa. I will check the cut out on the balance  cock to see if its there. Would there be some connection though between obosa  and oberon , as the movement design is so close. And Manchester  is only miles from me, so it hasn't come far. I will check out the sellers  location as well. You've got me digging now

Edited April 22, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[balaton]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That's really good of you balaton. Tbh I did think it looked 20 years younger than 1955. What about the only lettering on the mainplate rg. It was suggest r glocker  the owner of ebosa. I will check the cut out on the balance  cock to see if its there. Would there be some connection though between obosa  and oberon , as the movement design is so close. And Manchester  is only miles from me, so it hasn't come far. I will check out the sellers  location as well. You've got me digging now

You’re welcome.

I’m afraid I can’t say whether the “RG” has any significance to Ebosa’s owner or whether it’s purely a coincidence.

However, I can say that other makes of pin lever movements also have different combinations of two letters, particularly Louis Newmark’s original Newmark Watch Co (not the resurrected company of the same name) which was based in Croydon. For a while in the 1950s they made their own calibres which, in my experience, all have various two-letter combos, thought to be factory production identifiers for internal reference purposes only.  

In addition, as you’ll see in the attached image, the BFG 866 in my dreadful Interpol watch also has two letters (GR) stamped on it which similarly seem to bear no discernible relation to either Baumgartner or Ilona Watch Co.

I’m not immediately aware of any historical connection between Ebosa and Oberon, the latter company being started by Erwin Rudolf in 1951. However, such is the apparent paucity of documented facts about both companies, it would be somewhat cavalier to dismiss it out of hand.

Regards.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, balaton said:

You’re welcome.

I’m afraid I can’t say whether the “RG” has any significance to Ebosa’s owner or whether it’s purely a coincidence.

However, I can say that other makes of pin lever movements also have different combinations of two letters, particularly Louis Newmark’s original Newmark Watch Co (not the resurrected company of the same name) which was based in Croydon. For a while in the 1950s they made their own calibres which, in my experience, all have various two-letter combos, thought to be factory production identifiers for internal reference purposes only.  

In addition, as you’ll see in the attached image, the BFG 866 in my dreadful Interpol watch also has two letters (GR) stamped on it which similarly seem to bear no discernible relation to either Baumgartner or Ilona Watch Co.

I’m not immediately aware of any historical connection between Ebosa and Oberon, the latter company being started by Erwin Rudolf in 1951. However, such is the apparent paucity of documented facts about both companies, it would be somewhat cavalier to dismiss it out of hand.

Regards.

 

Thank you for all that information.  You really know your history. I love to repair but I am only a beginner, but enjoy the history behind the brands just as much. I find that knowing the history helps me with my buying, I mostly repair vintage Swiss, i have a thing for Oris . But also history of British makers, the Smiths and Rolex story of Everest was fascinating. Incidentally the design of your BFG 866, with the long sweeping click, and the 3 studded balance cock I've seen used in Smiths Empire,  Ingersoll and Services. I found the Ingersol history good as well linking with Smiths for a short time.

[balaton]

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thank you for all that information.  You really know your history. I love to repair but I am only a beginner, but enjoy the history behind the brands just as much. I find that knowing the history helps me with my buying, I mostly repair vintage Swiss, i have a thing for Oris . But also history of British makers, the Smiths and Rolex story of Everest was fascinating. Incidentally the design of your BFG 866, with the long sweeping click, and the 3 studded balance cock I've seen used in Smiths Empire,  Ingersoll and Services. I found the Ingersol history good as well linking with Smiths for a short time.

I'm glad that you found my ramblings to be of some interest. And yes, delving into the histories of many long-gone original brands, including those you've mentioned, can be rewarding if not really, really frustrating much of the time.

Regards.