Help on Cartier 120(ETA 2000)movement

[east3rn]

Hello dear watchmakers.

I have a Cartier watch that is bothering me recently.

Photo of same movement is attached below. (Cartier 120 ,ETA 2000)

Here are problematic symptoms.

1. When hand-wound, rotor rotates or shake by itself.

2. When hand-wound, crown doesn't wind softly(hard to wind by hand)

3. Power reserve feels very short.

4. When watch has stopped, it doesn't run right away when it is shaken or hand-wound.

It has to be shaken for more amount of time compare to other automatic watches I have (Seiko, other ETA or Rolex movements.)

 

Could anyone suggest any solutions?

Thank you always.

  

 

[watchweasol]

Hi sounds like a few problems there.  but the watch needs dismantling carefully and the rotor bearings reversers etc inspecting and the watch given a good service.

I have attached the service sheets for you 

13_ETA2000,2000.1NEW.pdf 4107_ETA 2000.1, 2004.1 Ratchet Wheel.pdf 7878_ETA 2000.1 Reduction Wheels.pdf

[ifibrin]

Just a few points to note, as I have previously worked on this movements: the keyless work screws that hold the setting lever spring have a tendency to fly off when you unscrew them, because the setting lever spring is under tension. Hold with pegwood! Also, the pin at the end of the winding stem is rather long, and can break easily.

[Nucejoe]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:29 PM, east3rn said:

Power reserve feels very short.

Are you talking the power reserved by the  selfwinder or manaual wind? 

[east3rn]

21 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Are you talking the power reserved by the  selfwinder or manaual wind? 

I felt reserve was short when self wound.

Thank you

[east3rn]

23 hours ago, ifibrin said:

Just a few points to note, as I have previously worked on this movements: the keyless work screws that hold the setting lever spring have a tendency to fly off when you unscrew them, because the setting lever spring is under tension. Hold with pegwood! Also, the pin at the end of the winding stem is rather long, and can break easily.

 

On 4/13/2022 at 6:17 PM, watchweasol said:

Hi sounds like a few problems there.  but the watch needs dismantling carefully and the rotor bearings reversers etc inspecting and the watch given a good service.

I have attached the service sheets for you 

13_ETA2000,2000.1NEW.pdf 6.24 MB · 1 download 4107_ETA 2000.1, 2004.1 Ratchet Wheel.pdf 2.51 MB · 1 download 7878_ETA 2000.1 Reduction Wheels.pdf 95.97 kB · 1 download

Thank you all for your advice:)

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, east3rn said:

I felt reserve was short when self wound.

 

So the autowinder might be the culprit and  not wind full as its should, clean and inspect all parts of the winder module, epilame high speed arbours and reversers.

 I give the barrel a full manual wind and see how long it runs on bench, that gives you an idea how good the mainspring is,  while winding the barrel might discharge power at some point (loud to hear) thats the barrel-mainpsring  threshold, count how many turns of the crown it takes to  get to the threshold (when power gets discharged) rewind just short of that threshold, how long it then runs on bench is your actual power reserve, comparing the actual power reserve to the nominal helps decide if a new mainspring is needed.

Some folks just go ahead and renew the mainspring at each service. 

Good luck

[nickelsilver]

This caliber is not in line with the usual ETA quality. There are parts in the winding system that cannot be disassembled (gearing attached to the bridges), so hard to look for or correct wear, and cleaning really needs to be done in a machine with current solutions and agitation and ultrasonic. A few months ago I sourced a half dozen of the complete barrel bridges with the attached gearing for a Japanese friend as he just replaces that part to be able to fully guarantee the work. But like Joe says, clean well, epilame wherever you think oil might spread (that gearing for example), and test well, should be OK.

[ifibrin]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

This caliber is not in line with the usual ETA quality. There are parts in the winding system that cannot be disassembled (gearing attached to the bridges), so hard to look for or correct wear, and cleaning really needs to be done in a machine with current solutions and agitation and ultrasonic. A few months ago I sourced a half dozen of the complete barrel bridges with the attached gearing for a Japanese friend as he just replaces that part to be able to fully guarantee the work. But like Joe says, clean well, epilame wherever you think oil might spread (that gearing for example), and test well, should be OK.

The date mechanism seems a bit of a downgrade from the smaller ETA 2671. The 2000-1 doesn’t have the date snap as cleanly at 12 as the 2671 or 2824-2, and slowly moves forward around 11pm, before finally snapping at 12. Also, the date seems to move forward slightly past 12am (but still at correct date, just not centered), finally snapping back to center at the correct date past 1am. I tried a few different date jumper spring and date driving wheel, oiling, but it’s still the same.

[ifibrin]

6 hours ago, east3rn said:

 

Thank you all for your advice:)

The motion work cover plate is hinged and held under tension, and can launch the screw when it is being unscrewed. Be very careful when removing that screw too!