7S36C Main spring issue?

[yongst]

I am currently fixing a 7S36C movement. I think I have found the issue with the movement, before I attach the balance wheel and pallet fork, the movement works fine when winding the mainspring. However after attaching the balance wheel and pallet fork the mainspring no longer turns the wheel upon winding it. I have made sure to attach the pallet fork and balance wheel correctly many times but it does not seem to want to start. I also spun the balance wheel manually to ensure the pallet fork is in contact. The hair spring does seem to be easily messed up when I am installing it to the movement, could this be the reason the watch does not work?

[ifibrin]

The hairspring in your last photo has the terminal curve severely kinked. How did you install the balance cock?

[yongst]

Hi, I installed the balance cock by "waving" it around the pivot hole until it eventually set in place. It may have been kinked due to the way I stored it.. Is this likely the reason the balance cock will not start? 

[ifibrin]

14 minutes ago, yongst said:

Hi, I installed the balance cock by "waving" it around the pivot hole until it eventually set in place. It may have been kinked due to the way I stored it.. Is this likely the reason the balance cock will not start? 

A balance spring that kinked is unlikely to start. When I asked how you installed the balance cock, I was asking if you let the balance wheel dangle in the air while you place the balance cock into position. Many people do this and it’s fine, but if your hands are shaky you can get the hairspring into twists and kinks.

[ifibrin]

This is how the balance wheel should look and be stored

[clockboy]

Hairspring is badly out of shape in the terminal curve. Not a easy job for the inexperienced for sure and not easy to give information how to rectify the fault. This is a pic of a 7S36C h/s

 

 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, yongst said:

 The hair spring does seem to be easily messed up when I am installing it to the movement, could this be the reason the watch does not work?

Yes you have destroyed the hairspring. That is totally normal for a beginner, e.g. the topic below, as they seem to think watches are easy to work on, or robust. But, they are not. You can only now buy a new SII (Seiko) NH36, luckily it is not very expensive.

 

 

[HectorLooi]

SG$ 2.32  44%OFF | Watch Balance Wheel Parts Full Swing Hairspring for 7S36 7S26 46941 2189 46945 7009 Watch Movement Watchmaker Repair Accessory
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mP94ecW

I'd recommend getting a OEM replacement first as removing the old balance wheel and replacing it can be a little tricky. Once you get good at doing it then consider getting an original Seiko part.

[ifibrin]

1 hour ago, yongst said:

Hi, I installed the balance cock by "waving" it around the pivot hole until it eventually set in place. It may have been kinked due to the way I stored it.. Is this likely the reason the balance cock will not start? 

It’s quite likely that the kinked hairspring will stop your balance wheel from oscillating. It’s also possible that the impulse jewel is not located correctly in relation to the pallet fork, but I wouldn’t be worried about that at this point. Your hairspring is so kinked that even if your impulse jewel is placed correctly in relation to the pallet fork, the watch wouldn’t run properly anyway.

[ifibrin]

17 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

SG$ 2.32  44%OFF | Watch Balance Wheel Parts Full Swing Hairspring for 7S36 7S26 46941 2189 46945 7009 Watch Movement Watchmaker Repair Accessory
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mP94ecW

I'd recommend getting a OEM replacement first as removing the old balance wheel and replacing it can be a little tricky. Once you get good at doing it then consider getting an original Seiko part.

That could work, but removing the eta chron style stud and regulator is hard without the tools. Could end up breaking the pivots too.

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, yongst said:

The hair spring does seem to be easily messed up when I am installing it to the movement, could this be the reason the watch does not work?

We wont tell your friend what you have done to his watch, providing you tell us what your ambitions in horology are.    LOL

Welcome to the forum yongst 

 

[yongst]

31 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

We wont tell your friend what you have done to his watch, providing you tell us what your ambitions in horology are.    LOL

Welcome to the forum yongst 

 

Just wanted to try watch fixing as a hobby hahaha, managed to convince my friend to let me use his broken watch as a guinea pig dont think he would be too happy to find out I broke it even more 

[yongst]

Thanks everyone for the help, greatly appreciate it! I've ordered a balance wheel replacement and will be researching more on the proper procedure to install it

[jdm]

25 minutes ago, yongst said:

I've ordered a balance wheel replacement and will be researching more on the proper procedure to install it

If you bought a genuine Seiko replacement that cost alone one half or more  that a new SII NH36.

If you bought a cheap Chinese one these are not of good quality and may not work satisfactorily. 

In either case you will have to reinstall the end stud to the arm fork, without damaging the hairspring, which is not that easy.

Then of course you will have to refit the balance, something about which you have no previous experience except the one that made you join this forum.

Finally it could also be that the original problem (whatever it was) still exists.

All the above makes so that replacing the complete movement is only approach can realistically succeed for an absolute beginner.

[HectorLooi]

The first part of this video shows how to remove the hairspring from the stud arm and regulator. This is the first step needed to remove the balance wheel from the balance cock.

This is a tricky procedure for a beginner. There is a real possibility of damaging the stud arm.

My advice is to enrol in some watch repair courses first. Mark, our forum creator, has some excellent online courses. There are actual hands-on courses conducted in Singapore too.

[ifibrin]

What tweezers are you using for assembly? They make a real difference. 

[jdm]

8 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

This is a tricky procedure for a beginner. There is a real possibility of damaging the stud arm.

Disassembling an Etachon stud is not difficult at all, of course a beginner can easily mess that also, or believe that he that he will need an expensive tool for that, which is not the case.

The difficult part is reassembling, there have been many discussion about that, and the procedure is also described in the Seiko service document. At least the damaged balance can be used for practice.

 

8 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Mark, our forum creator, has some excellent online courses.

I'm the first that recommends Mark's training to genuine enthusiasts which want to get to the top of this difficult hobby. At the same time it's unrealistic to think than people thinking they can fix right away mechanical mov.ts will spend various hundreds in training and tools, and then hundreds of hours in learning and practicing.