Omega 601 vs 610 Mainsping

[Khan]

Hi

Is there a difference in the mainspring between cal. 601 and 610 Omega movement?

Cousinsuk.com refers to "1280" mainsping for both for the original part but different sizes for a non-original. 

Furthermore, Bidfun show difference in movement dimensions. 

I´m asking because I get a low amplitude and visually limited oscillation when inserting a 610 mainspring in a 601 during service,

Kind regards

[Klassiker]

It seems so. Here is a useful list: https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/mainsprings

[Khan]

Okay, so according to the table

Omega 601: H=1.05 T=0.12 L=360 D=9.5
Omega 610: H=1.10 T=0.11 L=340 D=10.0

Doesn´t it equalize by dimensions or does it make wrong impact to use 610 mainspring on a 610 movement? The balance spring doesn´t bounce enough. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Khan

[JohnR725]

According to the tech sheets and looking at for the 601 and 610 Omega's recommending the same mainspring. According to the website below for each of the watches their recommending the same mainspring. According to the mainspring catalog were snipped out the watch mainsprings there is a slight difference the same difference and you have

Seeing as how Omega is recommending the same spring for both of them in looking at your dimensions I can't see that the mainspring  would make that much difference there so close in size.

So I'm assuming you a low amplitude before servicing is still have a low amplitude? Then visit change if it's in a different position like dial-up and dial down?

 

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=OME_601

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=OME_610

 

 

[Khan]

I just checked the amplitude on the timegrapher:

Dial down: 281 

Dial up: 124

Very embarrassing results. But the balance runs freely when pallet fork uninstalled and the friction spring for the centre pivot doesn't look to make friction. And it feels like sufficient power in the pallet fork when turning it right and left without balance installed and fully wound.

[JohnR725]

 

I have enhanced your photo is best I can you really need to change the angle or change the contrast your machine because it's really hard to see what we need to see.

Is not the change much but your lift angles 49° by the way

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Dial down: 281 

Dial up: 124

Very embarrassing results. But the balance runs freely when pallet fork uninstalled and the friction spring for the centre pivot doesn't look to make friction. And it feels like sufficient power in the pallet fork when turning it right and left without balance installed and fully wound.

Dial-up and dial down should always be almost identical then it's always nice to have a least one crown position like crown down.

Just take the sweep second pinion out. It's not needed for the watch to run they will deal with the friction spring later.

Notice in the enhanced picture we can see the graphical display notice we don't see lines we see random dots? There might be a little bit of a pattern there but not very much. The timing machine relies on a good clean signal to give us proper numbers if we see random dots on the graphical display it tells us you're having a problem.. That means the numbers are basically invalid.

I would look really carefully at your hairspring. That's because this isn't really an amplitude issue despite with the timing machine says this is an issue of the escapement is not producing a nice ticking sound. the hairspring would be the most likely cause not entirely the only cause but the most likely cause.

 

 

[Khan]

55 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

 

I have enhanced your photo is best I can you really need to change the angle or change the contrast your machine because it's really hard to see what we need to see.

Is not the change much but your lift angles 49° by the way

Dial-up and dial down should always be almost identical then it's always nice to have a least one crown position like crown down.

Just take the sweep second pinion out. It's not needed for the watch to run they will deal with the friction spring later.

Notice in the enhanced picture we can see the graphical display notice we don't see lines we see random dots? There might be a little bit of a pattern there but not very much. The timing machine relies on a good clean signal to give us proper numbers if we see random dots on the graphical display it tells us you're having a problem.. That means the numbers are basically invalid.

I would look really carefully at your hairspring. That's because this isn't really an amplitude issue despite with the timing machine says this is an issue of the escapement is not producing a nice ticking sound. the hairspring would be the most likely cause not entirely the only cause but the most likely cause.

 

 

Maybe the hairspring is sitting too low? Or the coils are too close? Because it looks sticky when bouncing. 

[Khan]

[JohnR725]

Casually the images look okay that doesn't mean they're okay it just means can't see from the picture anything that really jumps out is hideously bad. But we don't have the right angle to see if they hairspring is flat either.

10 hours ago, Khan said:

Because it looks sticky when bouncing. 

How did you clean the balance wheel and hairspring? And did you Demagnetized them?

Then I'm attaching some images? Did notice something peculiar which you can fix? Notice in one of the pictures that your balance wheel upside down it appears to be that the roller jewel is where it's supposed to be which is in alignment with one of the arms in the balance wheel. This works out really nice for putting the watch in beat? Then you notice the other image I assume the balance wheel wasn't moving notice how the arm is off to the side? As this is a movable stud you can just move it with the balance in the watch until the arm is over the pivot of the pallet fork and you'll be in beat or at least much closer than you are now. Seeing as how the timing machines not going to help you with that until we get the image to clean up

Then Julia picture the dial side because I want to see what the balance jewel looks like? Plus maybe a picture straight down at the balance wheel and not sure with a see anything but just because may be perhaps?

 

 

 

 

 

[Khan]

Dear John 

Thanks for taking time to put thoughts on balance analysis. I noticed that there was a single piece of wool hiding right under the bridge in the smallest diameter of the hairspring. With this removed, I cleaned it again and soaked it in benzine for an hour. That made a remarkable difference in the amplitude and gradually went better by time. Then adjusted the stud to correct the best error and here are the results for now. 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Khan said:

I noticed that there was a single piece of wool hiding right under the bridge in the smallest diameter of the hairspring. With this removed, I cleaned it again and soaked it in benzine for an hour.

It's amazing all the little things that can screw up the balance wheel and that will affect everything related to timing. Versus other things that people tend to get excited about like in your case the mainspring

Then out of curiosity how did you lubricate the escapement? Also did you demagnetized the watch?

Then your images are almost impossible to see The 1000 machine has the ability to changes LCD contrast. I snipped out an image from the manual. Is slightly cryptic in the that you can't just push and hold the arrow button you have to push in a whole bunch of times. Because currently it looks like you're near one of the extremes which is why it's so hard to see. You should build adjusted to get a much nicer image which also photographs really nicely

 

 

[Khan]

Thanks for the tip, I will look up on the LCD once home. 

You are absolutely right in the fact that the smallest odd things can effect such a sensitive part as a balance wheel. 
I de-magnetized the watch and checked it for magnetization on a compass. 
I lubricated the left stone of the pallet fork with a slight drop of Moebius 9415. 

 

[rodabod]

You want the 0.12 thickness mainspring. It will produce around 30% greater force than the 0.11 thickness mainspring.