Mechanical Alarm Question...

[artphotodude]

Hey You-all!  

Just a quick question.  I have a Poljot 'Signal' Alarm watch (2612.1) that was serviced about a year ago (still keeping great time) that suddenly started a weird behavior. I was recently trying the alarm with just a few winds, at a few points on the dial to get an idea how accurate it was sounding at the right time, and then it stopped being able to wind the actual alarm-spring (just clicks, but never build's up tension).  I asked a repairman in Saint Petersburg (can fortunately still reach with email) and he said the springs in these very seldom fail, and it was likely part of the Alarm's keyless works that slipped.  He also advised that removing hands is a bit tricky as putting the second hand back requires bracing the jewel on the back-side of the movement, or sometimes the jewel will come out. 

He advised a full teardown, but I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with these and if it might be possible to simply check the dial-side of the movement for anything being out of whack?  These are normally cheap-enough that I'd just order a serviced movement and drop it in, but with things being like they are in the world, might actually have to fix it!

 

Thanks for any advice.  

 

Adam :0)

P.S.  I am kinda just beginning but have fixed things like overbanking.  

[mikepilk]

The 2612 is a copy of the A Schild 1475 - I think it's made using the machines bought from the Swiss. 

Is the alarm ringing as you try to wind it ?

I just finished servicing one. For an alarm watch, they're pretty straight forward to work on. Just be methodical and take lots of pics. There are a couple of fiddly springs on the alarm mechanism.

The alarm barrel and click are visible, so you can check out whether the alarm barrel is winding. The barrel is at 2 o'clock in the pic -

Edited March 5, 2022 by mikepilk

[KarlvonKoln]

The repairman could be on to something.  I also have a Poljot.  I've stripped it down to clean it, but I could see where a detent lever or spring could slip out of place, or become too worn or broken.  If the alarm spring barrel does not turn, you may wish to look for those other things.

[artphotodude]

4 hours ago, mikepilk said:

The 2612 is a copy of the A Schild 1475 - I think it's made using the machines bought from the Swiss. 

Is the alarm ringing as you try to wind it ?

I just finished servicing one. For an alarm watch, they're pretty straight forward to work on. Just be methodical and take lots of pics. There are a couple of fiddly springs on the alarm mechanism.

The alarm barrel and click are visible, so you can check out whether the alarm barrel is winding. The barrel is at 2 o'clock in the pic -

The alarm train DOES NOT TURN when winding the crown.  So it seems like the issue is where the alarm barrel meshes with the train dial-side.  At first I wondered if the alarm spring came off it's arbor, but my watchmaker friend told me that was far less likely than some slip of the "connective tissue".  

 

THANKS VERY MUCH for the reply.

[artphotodude]

4 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

The repairman could be on to something.  I also have a Poljot.  I've stripped it down to clean it, but I could see where a detent lever or spring could slip out of place, or become too worn or broken.  If the alarm spring barrel does not turn, you may wish to look for those other things.

The barrel turns, it just doesn't actually tighten the spring, so is slipping apparently on the other side.

 

[HectorLooi]

Could it be that the ratchet wheel is slipping at the barrel arbor?

Remove the ratchet wheel screw and see if the square hole or the square portion of the arbor is damaged.

[artphotodude]

19 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Could it be that the ratchet wheel is slipping at the barrel arbor?

Remove the ratchet wheel screw and see if the square hole or the square portion of the arbor is damaged.

That SEEMS (from how it's acting) to be very likely - or perhaps the spring has slipped-off the arbor inside.  Since I might have to take it all apart anyway, might just start with the alarm bridge and see if that could be it. Am moving the next two weeks but will try to get back to this toward the end of the month.  It seems unlikely it's in the 'bell housing' in as all the other behaviors are acting quite normal - right down to the 'wiggle' the hour hand does when the alarm hand passes by it.  

Edited March 5, 2022 by artphotodude

[artphotodude]

On another note - is it just me, or do the train-bridges on these look a bit naughty?

[Klassiker]

It's just you☺

[artphotodude]

So am waiting until I get moved to open the watch, but am pretty much convinced at this stage it is an arbor issue.  When I set the alarm to be engaged, and turn the winding crown the alarm activate and works as the crown is being turned.  Then when the alarm is set to an 'off' position the alarm train no longer works, but also doesn't wind and tighten the spring.  Am pretty much sure it is within the alarm barrel.  Am going to start off by pulling the alarm bridge and see if the problem can be sorted-out without total disassembly.  If the alarm spring is damaged, will likely have to buy a donor movement.  

A note on these, my watchmaker friend in St. Petersburg warned me about - attaching the second hand seems to require a bit more than normal care - he warned that if the train-bridge isn't well supported, the center-wheel jewel will sometimes move and or fall-out from pressure applying the second hand!  STRANGE!!!!

[artphotodude]

Sorry to have failed to reply on how this turned-out.  Turns out it was just a broken alarm spring and it was indeed possible to remove and replace the alarm barrel without a full teardown.  The center bridge did have to come-off, but that was the only significant effort.  The alarm bridge was a since after that.