Alum For Broken Dial Screw, But...

[canwdarose]

Hi All - i'm in the middle of a rebuild of a Seiko 5106A, and all looked great, short of a chipped (not cracked) jewel and a broken dial screw - I though strip, remove screw, clean, lube, build - good to go.  BUT, I foolishly jumped into the bath of alum for the screw and now have a lever slide pivot post corroded away.  I'm wondering 2 things:  the chipped jewel has an intact through-hole, so i'm planning NOT to replace it.  Thoughts?

The main problem is the lever slide post is steel, and the alum attacked it, of course, and is shot.  Have I trashed the main plate or can these posts be replaced?  Anyone ever done one?  Are they a purchasable part or do I find another 5106 for parts?

Any advice would be appreciated.  And yes, I realize i should have used a tiny magnet or something to test this post and all the others before dunking it in alum.

The post appears to be threaded into the main plate, but it is so tiny i can't really see whether its threaded or just pressed in.  And I'm waiting to hear from this forum before finishing the job with the alum - nervous about the other posts....

Check out the photo - the post in question is in the curved slot of the lever - the cool piece that looks like a flamingo head - and allows the cam to drive the lever into the date ring and day dial simultaneously, which is extremely cool.  The 'beak' of the lever engages the dial tooth.

Ideas or advice?

Bill 

[rogart63]

That is bad luck .Alum is really a good thing when it comes to broken screws . But sometime it can be to good .  I now what i would do .I would probably try to find a donor watch or a movement . Their is one on Ebay .Doesn't now where it stops in price . Sorry i did the wrong number  5160A instead of 5106A. Speedtimerkollektion has almost a complete movement in parts on Ebay . 

Edited May 3, 2015 by rogart63

[bobm12]

I'd say new plate and welcome to the forum! Sorry there is no other solution I can offer!

[canwdarose]

Thanks for the welcome and the advice. I'm thinking a donor, too, but stubbornly clinging to the idea I can replace that post from a donor watch, rather than the entire plate. I think I'll mull over options while I look for a 5106 donor. And really try to understand if that post is pressed in. If it is, then that opens up options. If screwed in, not so much.

[bobm12]

Oh yeah, if not part of the plate, it is pressed in...you can make one but it is difficult...I did with a 7S26 for the intermediate wheel for date corrector, using hand tools and it was a pain.

[anilv]

Hi Bill,

Bite the bullet and source for a replacement/donor. It'll save you a lot of time. The post will be pressed in and while you can replace it,the chances of it coming off will be high.

To do this repair properly yet u will need a lathe and some fine measuring tools. The hole where the post goes will be deformed when you pull the old post out (unless you use alum!!) , this is critcal as this post sees a bit of side loading and the chances of the replacement post coming loose is high.

Re the chipped crystal... You don't say which side is cracked. If its cracked on the wheel or 'nner' sidethen it's no go. If its cracked on the outer side then the watch will run but the oil sink will be compromised and this will not be good for the long term running of the watch. Again, a donor watch will solve your problems?

Anil

[anilv]

Re cracked jewel part2

If the jewel setting has a cap, then if it is chipper on the inner face it should not matter as the cap jewels take care of end friction.

Anil

[canwdarose]

Anil, I have a donor watch picked out, and its on its way, so I'm pretty sure I'll do the swap. In the meantime, the post is completely out thanks to the alum, and the post is 0.8mm diameter and 1.00mm long. Which is also the diameter of a #67 drill. Without too much to lose, I'm thinking of a 1.00mm long piece of a HHS drill and inserting in the main plate.

What do think of the smallest breath of lock tite or super-glue to help hold the stud in place. I believe super glue off-gases, so I'm leaning to lock tite, since I see it used for stem extensions which live inside a cased watch and presumably would damage watches if it was a problem. Or are both a bad idea?

Otherwise, how did Seiko "press" a steel pin into a brass plate, with so little thickness in the main plate. The fit must have been incredibly precise - steel would move the brass so easily.

[anilv]

You are so right.. it all comes down to precision. A perfectly shaped rod and a perfectly shaped hole with a bit of an interference fit will take a lot to shift.

 

It will not be so easy with hand tools... you should get away with lock-tite but if you have a similar donor movement then the only benefit in attempting this will the exercise for its own sake. If that is your main purpose then go for it! The experience will be good when you work on watches where spares are not so readily available.

 

Are you going to swap out the cracked crystal?

 

BTW make sure the donor movement is identical when it comes to jewel count.. Seiko made the same basic movement with different jewel counts and parts like wheels etc are not interchangeable. If your donor is from the sub-continent then the marks on the rotor may not be an accurate guide as they can be swapped easily.

 

Anil

[Geo]

If you have a staking set you could use a hollow round nose punch to nip it up.

[canwdarose]

Hi guys, thanks for the continued insights. I'm planning to do the repair like Anilv says for the experience of making my own parts and for the fun. I will be checking the donor really closely.

Good idea with the light stake near the pivot - I presume on the backside since the face is the sliding surface - and the backside recess is wide open and accessible. If (when) I get it done, I'll post a photo.

In the meantime, here's the first watch I stripped and repaired. My high school graduation present back in '80, and had run for years and quit. Took in for battery and the guy said "new movement - maybe $350", and I thought no way. Went on line and bought a back opener and a cheap loupe, and discovered the ETA movement number inside.

Another search brought up the blog "Adventures in Amateur Watch Fettling", which was a revelation - beautifully formatted, elegant photographs and smart and witty commentary - a treat to read and the bonus was Martin had virtually the identical watch, although his was branded a Tag Heuer, rather my house-brand "Birks". basically it was a how-to tutorial written and photographed just for me. Do check it out if you've not seen it.

Anyway, that launched the fascination.

[canwdarose]

Oh, and I will check that cracked/chipped jewel more closely. I was forgetting the jewel was the lube reservoir, too. If I can get a good enough photo, I'll post a pic.

Which reminds me, how do you guys get such great macro shots? I'm not gonna believe anyone will spring for expert camera gear when the same money could get a set of Bergeron winders - well, maybe the 1/2 set. What's the secret to the great shots?

Bill

[DavePak]

I'm puzzled,

I tried to use alum from a grocery store to remove broken stems from crowns.

I've never had any luck. The stem never dissolves. I must be doing something wrong.

 

Hope everything works out for you.

[rogart63]

I'm puzzled,

I tried to use alum from a grocery store to remove broken stems from crowns.

I've never had any luck. The stem never dissolves. I must be doing something wrong.

 

Hope everything works out for you.

Me to :( I have tried to remove a broken stem from a crown . Didn't work .I don't now if the material is different in the stem or it's because it's hard for the alum to work on the metal in the stem inside the crown . I have used the same recipe on screws in the  movement with great success.  

Edited May 9, 2015 by rogart63

[rogart63]

Broke the left turn screw in this 782-1 tissot movement . Have learned from this thread that don't put the whole movement in alum . So i am trying this . Some old rodico around the screwhole and put some alunjuice in there . Hope it does leak around the edges . 

Does the incabloc spring and it's parts get damage from the alum ? 

 

Edited May 15, 2015 by rogart63

[ro63rto]

Someone once wrote (Geo I think) to mix the alum with something gelatinous so as to keep it in or on the item in question.

Edited May 15, 2015 by ro63rto

[bobm12]

I think it was Anil and I forgot what it was! I could use the same advise now too! BTW, the incabloc parts do get damaged by Alum and anything else that touches them (springs mostly). I believe they can be sourced though!

[ro63rto]

Found the post.

Geo had said vinegar with petrolium jelly.

Might still work with alum instead of vinegar?

[bobm12]

I'll be experimenting with that then, I have a stem rusted in the main plate and I really want to get it out and use the plate!

[rogart63]

Found the post.

Geo had said vinegar with petrolium jelly.

Might still work with alum instead of vinegar?

Petrolium jelly like Vaseline ? 

[ro63rto]

Petrolium jelly like Vaseline ?

Not sure on the vaseline. Dont know whats in it but Geo said petrolium jelly.

Not tried it yet but need too soon as I want to remove a screw to get into my Dads Omega Constellation. Still not got round to it.

[bobm12]

Vaseline is actually Petroleum Jelly with a fancy name...:)

[Geo]

It was Horology that said that Roberto, not me.

"horology, on 22 May 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Also when there is a rusty stubborn plate screw you can mix white vinegar with petrolioun jelly and apply the jelly on the top the stubborn screw and wait a few days.

The screw will become a mass of brown poop. you will have to replace the screw.

The reason for using the greese is so the vinegar does not spred into the gear train or other steel parts."

[ro63rto]

It was Horology that said that Roberto, not me.

"horology, on 22 May 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Also when there is a rusty stubborn plate screw you can mix white vinegar with petrolioun jelly and apply the jelly on the top the stubborn screw and wait a few days.

The screw will become a mass of brown poop. you will have to replace the screw.

The reason for using the greese is so the vinegar does not spred into the gear train or other steel parts."

Ah, re-read your post carefully [emoji4] and now I see you were quoting. Sorry.

[rogart63]

I removed the incabloc and put the whole main plate in alum .