Air bubble when oiling cap jewels

[ifibrin]

When oiling cap jewels, I noticed that after running of the watch for awhile, an air bubble appears at the pivot hole of the jewel hole. I thought this was due to insufficient oil, so against best practice, I oiled 100% of the area (I know it should be 50% to 70% area) after putting the end stone to the chaton, but the air bubble reappeared after running for awhile. Is this normal?

Edited September 6, 2021 by ifibrin

[mikepilk]

8 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Are you sure it's not the pivot hole you are mistaking for a bubble ?

 

[ifibrin]

24 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

 

I am pretty sure it’s an air bubble because I thought it was the oil ring at first  when I examined the movement after running, but it was much smaller than what it should be.

I then cleaned the jewels and reapplied a lot more oil, until there was no ring. However, the air bubble reappeared after I ran the movement for a few hours.

Edited September 6, 2021 by ifibrin

[HectorLooi]

This what happens when the jewel is over-oiled. The oil meniscus has touched the edge of the jewel and capillary action has drawn away the oil.

If less oil is used, the surface tension of the oil will keep it in the centre of the jewel.

[ifibrin]

17 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

This what happens when the jewel is over-oiled. The oil meniscus has touched the edge of the jewel and capillary action has drawn away the oil.

If less oil is used, the surface tension of the oil will keep it in the centre of the jewel.

I tried using less oil but then I saw two rings instead. If I use even more oil then it looks like this

[nickelsilver]

It should look like this. If there is less oil, the circle of oil will be smaller (which is what your images look like), if there is more, it will be larger, to the point that it touches the border and wicks off to the side, like your last photo with the red X.

[ifibrin]

15 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

It should look like this. If there is less oil, the circle of oil will be smaller (which is what your images look like), if there is more, it will be larger, to the point that it touches the border and wicks off to the side, like your last photo with the red X.

I mean there’s another ring just around the pivot hole, a ring of air bubble in the middle of the oil ring. Something like this from Archer at  omegaforums https://omegaforums.net/threads/basic-watchmaking-tips-oiling-part-3-the-wheel-train.84482/

Edited September 6, 2021 by ifibrin

[mikepilk]

I think you might be misinterpreting what you are seeing.  As @nickelsilver says, your red arrow is pointing to the outer edge of the oil. I think you have a solid disk of oil,  just less oil than in Nicksilver's picture.

I had an instance when cleaning the chaton jewel with pegwood, it go pushed down slightly. So despite applying lots of oil, the oil ring was very small, like yours. Took me a while to figure out what had happened. 

[nickelsilver]

2 hours ago, ifibrin said:

I mean there’s another ring just around the pivot hole, a ring of air bubble in the middle of the oil ring. Something like this from Archer at  omegaforums https://omegaforums.net/threads/basic-watchmaking-tips-oiling-part-3-the-wheel-train.84482/

In Archer's photo what looks like an oil ring that is approximately the size he has indicated is an artifact of the chaton; the center "bubble" is the oil ring, and I believe he is showing that it is too small (as all the photos in that post are giving examples of improper oiling that he has come across).

[ifibrin]

58 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I think you might be misinterpreting what you are seeing.  As @nickelsilver says, your red arrow is pointing to the outer edge of the oil. I think you have a solid disk of oil,  just less oil than in Nicksilver's picture.

I had an instance when cleaning the chaton jewel with pegwood, it go pushed down slightly. So despite applying lots of oil, the oil ring was very small, like yours. Took me a while to figure out what had happened. 

What do you mean by this? How did you resolve it?

[mikepilk]

The jewel in the chaton had pushed down slightly making the gap between it and the cap jewel too large. It therefore took a lot of oil to bridge the gap. I had to push the chaton jewel up very slightly - I used a jewelling tool so that I could move it a very small amount. 

Do you have the same problem on upper and lower jewels ?

[ifibrin]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I think you might be misinterpreting what you are seeing.  As @nickelsilver says, your red arrow is pointing to the outer edge of the oil. I think you have a solid disk of oil,  just less oil than in Nicksilver's picture.

I think you are right. I turned over the cap jewel and jewel hole assembly and I see the oil cup in the chaton filled up with oil.

For some reason, the oil droplet on the end stone is not spreading on it when the jewel hole is placed on top of it, but flowing out through the pivot hole into the oil cup of the hole jewel.

Edited September 6, 2021 by ifibrin

[mikepilk]

From the Incabloc website, the gap between cap and chaton jewel is typically 0.03 mm.

From what I remember with the jewel I adjusted,  there was a lip on the chaton, so I could see when it was at the correct level.

Otherwise I guess you could push the jewel up a touch, find something 0.03mm thick to sit on it, then press the cap jewel down until it seats. 

Or get a replacement.