C11KAS automatic wind issue

[LittleWatchShop]

First of all, I bought this on Ebay in case I needed any parts for my Wittnauer Compressor someday in the future.  Advertised as not working.

When I started taking it apart, the first thing I noticed was a missing crown wheel spacer.  So, there are issues resulting from the last person who messed with it.

I disassembled and cleaned.  Made a replacement crown wheel spacer (and ordered one from across the pond...months ago...still has not arrived) and it worked.

After assembling, sans the automatic wind mechanism, the watch runs nicely.  Winding works, etc.

But when I install the AW mech, the manual winding locks up.  This is my first AW repair, BTW.  After lots of fiddling and analysis, I have concluded that the post for the wheel shown has either worn away, or incorrectly replaced, or...something...dunno.  Because, when I manual wind, I see this wheel moving laterally and I think it binds with the AW gear it engages.  Hard to know for sure.

In the first picture, the gear shown is just sitting on top of the movement at a random location.  In the second picture, the post in question is at the center of the picture.  Notice also the amount of wear on the plate.

Thoughts?

[watchweasol]

Judging by the wear marks on the plate this wheel/post is worn and shifting its position and causing the problem, untill that is sorted only then will you know for sure.     cheers

[clockboy]

It might be a trick of the light but do I see damaged teeth on this wheel.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

4 hours ago, clockboy said:

trick of the light

teeth are fine.  just photo anomaly.

[LittleWatchShop]

Here is another C11KAS (this is a -1 and the one above is -2...dont know the difference)

Clearly the post is much taller keeping the wheel from wobbling.

Fixing this seems more trouble than it is worth.  I bought this as a donor watch for the donor watch of my childhood watch (my avatar).  I have 2x the parts needed for any emergency.

[jdm]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Fixing this seems more trouble than it is worth.

Yes, but this sort of repairs, in my opinion, are what marks one's evolution from parts swapper to repairer. Put at good use the staking set. Turn a new stake if none does. Turn a brass pin if no ready stock is available. Again to the staking set and some precise depth measurement and adjustment. Even if you will then set the piece aside the gained value is in what has been practically learned, dexterity and the increased self confidence.

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, jdm said:

Yes, but this sort of repairs, in my opinion, are what marks one's evolution from parts swapper to repairer. Put at good use the staking set. Turn a new stake if none does. Turn a brass pin if no ready stock is available. Again to the staking set and some precise depth measurement and adjustment. Even if you will then set the piece aside the gained value is in what has been practically learned, dexterity and the increased self confidence.

You are correct...I cannot duck this challenge.

[StuartBaker104]

I repaired a Record branded version of that movement some time back and also found wear in one of the bronze bushes on the auto bridge which caused the auto wind to lock up. Had to make a new bush for that one.

If it helps, you will find a service manual here (under Longines 501)

https://www.vintagelongines.com/#downloads

 

[LittleWatchShop]

So, this morning, I found plenty of post on the other side of the plate, so I just punched it out further. That, however did not solve the problem.

It appears to me that one of the reverser gears is not operating properly.  Make sense, because I noticed that the winding weight did not move as freely as it should.  So, the reverser gear needs some serious cleaning.

I admit that when I cleaned the watch, I did not run the reverser gears through the cleaner.  Will do that now and report back.

[LittleWatchShop]

I ran the reversers through the cleaner.  One is fine...the one with the pinion on the bottom.  The other has some resistance--enough to spoil the works.

Gonna let this marinate in my mind for awhile.  Maybe I will swap out a reverser in another watch to prove that is the last issue.

As I noted somewhere...this watch came to me missing a crown wheel spacer and the recent discovery of the short post and some considerable abrasion on the plate.  Who knows the abuse.  Prehaps the rachet in the reverser is damaged in some way.

[LittleWatchShop]

OK, since I have another identical watch, I decided to swap the reversers.  Yup, the troubled watch worked just find with the replaced reversers.

As noted above, I can tell that the oscillating weight does not move as freely as I think it should.

Maybe I should put the reversers in the ultrasonic instead of the L&R spin clean. Dunno.

Edited May 23, 2021 by LittleWatchShop

[LittleWatchShop]

I hate it when something fixes itself without my guidance.

Seems that the manual wind feature is not working.  As best I can guess, maybe the oil I dropped between the reversing gear sandwich helped.  It just needed 24 hours to "sink" in.

Will continue to observe.

[LittleWatchShop]

On 5/21/2021 at 7:04 PM, LittleWatchShop said:

Here is another C11KAS (this is a -1 and the one above is -2...dont know the difference)

The -2 is a higher beat rate at least.