Omega Pocket Watch Help :(

[MrBeat]

Hi everyone :)

 

My very first post here on WRT and im hoping some of you clever chaps out there can help with a few things.

 

I have an Omega pocket watch ( well actually its wristwatch size but pocket watch movement ) which im currently stuck trying to repair, the issue is not whether its fixable ( luckily ) but rather which caliber it is.

I need to order a stem that will fit the watch but it is proving difficult as without a clue to the exact caliber i can not reference the right stem. I can provide photos if needed but the movement is just like a scaled down version of the 40.6 Omega that is well known to most in the business. To give a better idea the movement size is below ( measured with Vernier ).

 

15 Jewel Lever Escapement ( Dated 1915 )

 

Inner Diameter - 26.00mm

Outer Diameter - 26.90mm

 

The watch it belongs to is a WWII ? officers trench style watch. I have tried various similar omega pw stems with some success ( a cal 38.5 stem was closest ), but im still perplexed as to what to do. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

 

Also does anyone know of a book or somewhere online with good info on Omega pocket watch calibers ? ( i love restoring them but don't always know which cal they are :( )

 

Thanks in advance for any answers

 

MrBeat

[Geo]

A warm welcome to the forum Mr Beat.

I really wish I could help you, but is not my area of expertise. It is always better to include pictures if possible when asking questions as it makes it so much easier to relate to the problem. There are a few folk on here who have quite a bit to do with pocket watches, so fingers crossed that you get the help you need.

[WillFly]

Hi - just a question or two to try and disentangle some of the issues here.

 

If the movement diameter is 26.00mm/26.90mm, that would be the equivalent of 11.5 ligne - which is the sort of size you get with the Omega cal. 601 family, a typical wrist watch size. You say that it's dated 1915 - is that a hallmark date or some other date on the case? and, by "trench watch", I take it you mean the circular watch with the thin strap, wired lugs and hinged back which is typical of that style?

 

I can't speak for Omegas, but I know that, for many watches of that period such as Waltham, the stem was not an integral part of the movement but of the case, and that might be the situation with your watch.

 

As Geo says, a picture of the watch and particularly of the movement would be a great help.

[anilv]

If its a pocket watch movement from 1915 cased as a wrist watch then you'd probably have the sub-seconds dial at 9 o'clock instead of 6 clock as pocket watches usually have the stem at 12 o'clock.

 

This would also wear very large.

 

At 26mm it could be an early hand wind I recall one which used a circular set lever spring which I had a devil of a time to source...cant remember the caliber ref for the life of me.

 

Anil

[MrBeat]

Thanks for the answers so far guys. To answer some of the questions...

 

The date of the watch is referenced from the Omega manufacturer number 5418974 which is stamped onto the mainplate, although i know this is not an exact date it is a close guess based on facts we know.

 

The sizes i quoted were 26mm inner and 26.9 for the outer lip ( if that makes sense )

 

I know what you are saying about the Waltham watches with intergral winding stems etc but i know this particular watch takes a individual stem like regular watches. I have found a couple of potential candidates ( cal 100 & 26.5 stem ) but they are costly and id rather be sure before wasting funds on parts that could be no good.

 

I have included some photos below to show the watch, i have used a 18LPB mainplate to show the size comparison. The watch is currently half assembled so excuse the state of it. Hopefully these images will provide some clue to someone as to which cal this is.

 

 

I know the stem is somewhere between a standard and a pocket watch ( tap 12 kinda size ) because i have tried a larger caliber pocket watch stem that fits but the setting lever does not set correctly.

 

[Maurice]

Omega 26.5 or one of its variants

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Omega_26_5_0

[Maurice]

The 100 and the 26.5 use the same stem so either one should do.

[MrBeat]

Thanks maurice, i did think the stem from the cal 100 or 26.5 may fit but wasn't sure.

 

Im a little sceptical as the 26.5 or 100 is a later caliber but i have ordered a pack of 5 for cal 100,26.5,26.5T1 etc i hope they will fit.

 

In the meantime i can wind ( but not set ) the watch with my other omega stem. Im off to reassemble and repair the remaining movement parts and hunt down a new set of hands, but keep any info coming :)

 

Hopefully i will get this piece back to glory :)

[Geo]

Good find Maurice, but the keyless work looks radically different.

[Maurice]

Well spotted Geo, I was concentrating on the plates!

[Geo]

It certainly looked like it Maurice. Probably based on the the watch in question, but it is about ten years younger going by the date Rannft has on it.

[MrBeat]

Well a little update so far.

 

I have looked and researched as far as i can and it looks like the most likely stem will be the Cal 100/26.5, time will tell once the stems arrive.

 

I have made a start into restoring the movement and found immediately the balance hairspring is completely unrepairable ( someone previously attempted to repair with non omega hairspring ). Luckily i have over 300 balances and i have managed to find a suitable donor for a new hairspring. Although the movement needs a clean the balance does now swing ( starts & stops due to dirt and no lube ). The mainspring was broken in 3 pieces :O but i have again replaced this with a nice new clean one. So slowly but surely it should come together but its long game we play.

 

Wish me luck :)

[Geo]

Luck is wished! :)

Keep us posted as to how things go, and if possible post pictures of the process. It's this kind thing thing that makes the forum so special.

[MrBeat]

Well a little update for you all.

 

After stripping down the movement and inspecting the parts i found each jewel hole encrusted with very old debris, needless to say this was hindering the drivetrain somewhat :O The drivetrain wheels themselves were in good order if a little encrusted too, as was the rest of the movement. After a jolly good run through my two watch cleaning machines every part is now super clean and shiny once more. 

 

With each part checked i have now re assembled and lubricated the movement which is moving very nicely indeed. The drivetrain is now super smooth in action which considering the crud that was stuck inside it im relieved no jewels were damaged. Since the old mainspring was broken to pieces she now has a new shiny mainspring to give her some life again.

 

The balance was not in a very happy place so most of my efforts have gone into restoring the heart of the watch. As stated before the previous owner had stuck in a hairspring that did not match up well at all, and to top it off was badly kinked.

Luckily i keep a range of hairsprings in my stock so i was able to find a suitable replacement to work with. With a lot of patience i have managed to get the heart beating again, by no means a perfect result as yet but alive she is !!! :)

 

Currently the timing is within +-20-30 secs ( beat error 8+ Eeekkk ! ) but i know i still have some work to do in correcting the escapement timing and errors. Im just glad she has a beating heart :D

 

 

Now its a waiting game for the stems to arrive ( please please fit !! :P ), hopefully ive followed a logical line and they will fit, so fingers crossed. Once i have the correct stem the fun will begin in restoring to former glory.

 

Once i have stem success i will begin the reconstruction, then things will hopefully get fun. I figure you all love pictures so i will add the progress here once i begin. Exciting times :)

 

( I now need to hunt down some new hands, a crown, and hopefully a custom made strap )

 

Hope all you wonderful folks are enjoying Easter break :)

[Geo]

That's great that you are making inroads with the watch. I'm sure there will be a few like me waiting to see the end result and .............. pictures! ;)

[MrBeat]

Well time for a little update.

 

The stem finally arrived and although the stem fits and winds fine the setting lever part is too narrow and so the stem slips out and setting time is impossible. :(

It is proving quite a challenge to find the correct stem ( now i know why, explained below ), but i have a host of vintage parts coming my way this week so im hopeful there may be something among them that will work.

 

I have also been in touch with Omega who will look into either providing the stem ( if they have one left !) or manufacturing one new for this piece where possible. This is of course my last option as it would be costly to have any work done by Omega even if it is just a stem.

 

I have still been researching the watch and have finally discovered why it is so hard to find out the caliber. According to a new book which i have bought, the watch i have is the first Omega wristwatch they ever produced, the name or caliber is apparently ........ The Omega 12"' or (12 HN B ). Luckily the book had photos to show what it looked like , and sure enough it is identical to the very one which is causing me a head ache. So at least im getting somewhere :)

 

So my search continues..... however im going to continue with the casing, hands , dial, and reassemble the watch in the meantime so it is ready for a stem & crown.

[Geo]

The stem finally arrived and although the stem fits and winds fine the setting lever part is too narrow and so the stem slips out and setting time is impossible. :(

It is proving quite a challenge to find the correct stem ( now i know why, explained below ), but i have a host of vintage parts coming my way this week so im hopeful there may be something among them that will work.

 

Could you not find someone witha lathe and get them to widen the slot for you if that is the only issue?  It would be a lot cheaper than gettong Omega to doe anything.

[MrBeat]

The setting lever fits the slot, the issue is that the slot is not wide enough. The winding end is 0.80mm ( square bit ) and the slot is 1.20mm thick, but due to the pocket watch design the slot part of the stem needs to be twice as wide as the square end ( if that makes sense lol ).

 

Some photos to give you an idea. The second photo you can see the path the stem takes starts wide then narrows, the wide part is where the issue is as stems i try are not wide enough in this area and so fall out :(

 

 

If i can find a pocket watch stem that fits the bill then at least i can trim it down and create a new thread for a crown to sit on. At the moment im best guessing and ordering what i think is a likely match.

 

Im fairly sure that Omega would have reused the stem design on more than just this one watch but only way i will find out is trying as many as i can find.

 

There was me thinking repairing the movement would be the most challenging part ha ha :) Appreciate the input though guys ( and Geo :) )

[Geo]

OK I think I see what you mean, it is the diameter of the stem that is to small at that point. Could you not make a couple of sleeves and fit them over the stem and secure with loctite?

[MrBeat]

I was thinking the very same thing as an alternative. Time to search through my boxes me thinks, maybe a crown wheel washer may do the trick :)

[MrBeat]

Ok folks so its update time :)

 

Well its good news and bad news :) :(

 

I aquired this rather lovely piece ( yes you guessed i am a massive Omega fan )

 

 

And oh look it has an almost identical movement to the original one i started with in this thread....

 

 

Luckily this one is working, needs TLC but in good original order ( 1908 Omega 12"' HN B )

 

And guess what...... the stem pictured below fits the original Omega perfectly :)

 

 

 

 

Now heres my dilema, do i restore the watch the stem comes with or do i use the stem for the Original Omega ?

 

I finally find a stem that fits like a glove ( needs crown to be shortened ), but the stem happens to belong to another watch i really like :(

 

Advice people, this is what i need before i break down in tears :( Lol

[MrBeat]

Now that i have taken the watch apart further i see that it is a frankenstein :(

 

The case is non omega, the dial belongs to another omega entirely as it was glued down, but the movement is luckily original and working at least ...

 

I think the choice may be clear now, use the stem to finish the original omega and re use the other parts as spares. Its not ideal but i did intend to buy the watch to see if the stem would fit, which it does, but a little disappointed the watch isnt all original. Life goes on i suppose :)

 

Updates to come for the original Omega :)

[MrBeat]

Well there is still things to be done but im getting there :)

 

 

The stem unfortunately can not be shortened ( unless i nip a bit of the inner end ? ), the hands are just to give me an idea of what it would look like so i need to source some suitable and matching hands. I also need to order a nice new black strap as it really can't stay this way :) The sub dial seconds hand is going to be a pain, the tube is really slender and the hand is only 2.5mm in length, im sure i will eventually find one. The other hands i know are 1.40mm & 0.65mm, odd sizes but again i have to find some sooner or later.

 

The casing is in pretty good order now, although i can not fix/bend the lug otherwise it would break ( being soft silver i won't even risk it ), despite this i think it should all come together nicely. What do you guys think ? Any thoughts ?

[bobm12]

Hi MrBeat,

 

I love the watch the way it looks so maybe you may be able to use it as is until you find the hands you desire. I can't see why you can't get a stem for that movement but I'm not into Omegas. Also, I can't see (almost) why you can't shorten the stem...maybe there is not enough thread on the crown side? How about shortening the sleeve protruding from the crown? I wouldn't touch the watch side of the stem though. Also, maybe with a little heat you can straighten the lug? The straps, I've seen nice ones for Victorinox (I'm thinking about 18 mm) that will button around those lugs with the appearance of being riveted...I own a Victorinox with the same type of lugs and it looks great (to me of course). I have to change those again so I'll be buying them shortly and maybe post a picture in time.

 

I haven't worked on those watches and/or their cases so don't make a lot of my thoughts, they are just thoughts! Maybe it could help after all.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[WillFly]

Nice watch - any half-decent silversmith can straighten that lug out for you if you're wary of doing it yourself.

 

The extra length in the stem is barely noticeable - I wouldn't worry about it - unless you're a perfectionist, of course!