Fitting new Sellita SW-200-1 to Bell & Ross BR03-92

[andrewmayer]

1 hour ago, Poljot said:

Please note: date aperture between 4 and 5

Now, compare it with CousinsUK options for this calibre: Date @ 3h and overall numerals layout / size

 

That's a vey good point thanks! 

I am assuming that "Date @ 3h" is a characteristic of the date wheel only on new movement supplied by CousinsUK - and if I transfer the old date wheel to the new movement then the date will be displayed  between 4 and 5.  So I am assuming that no other parts on the movement affect the position of the date, only the date wheel. Is that right?

Can somebody more knowledgable than me confirm/deny that?

PS. thanks for the advice/comments. As a relative beginner I really appreciate it!

Edited December 5, 2020 by andrewmayer

[Poljot]

12 minutes ago, andrewmayer said:

That's a vey good point thanks! 

I am assuming that "Date @ 3h" is a characteristic of the date wheel only on new movement supplied by CousinsUK - and if I transfer the old date wheel to the new movement then the date will be displayed  between 4 and 5.  So I am assuming that no other parts on the movement affect the position of the date, only the date wheel. Is that right?

Can somebody more knowledgable than me confirm/deny that?

PS. thanks for the advice/comments. As a relative beginner I really appreciate it!

I simply did some research using additional information you provided - "Movement No.DM09/A154". Some people purchase new movements thinking that it could be a simple swap: open the case, remove the movement, remove all hands, lift the dial, transfer all hands and the dial, close the case. Boom! New watch. Not in your case.

You must check the Hour Wheel Height before ordering new movement. While waiting forever for your parcel, do some research on how-to replace the calendar, hands, how-to adjust the winding stem, how to securely install the old crown on new stem, how to and what should be oiled when calendar is being replaced. Also, you will need a dial protector and hands setting tools. Please note that if you try to save money by purchasing "Loose Pack" movement, you may need to at least verify, but possibly clean / oil some components (depends on how new/old the movement is & its previous storage condition). And lastly, you will probably need to clean the case and case tube. Then to dry it, have some silicone grease for all gaskets / o-rings (case & crown). If for some reason, you feel this is overwhelming - do yourself a favour - either tell your friend that you are not ready, or.. start practicing on his old movement right away! By the time his new movement arrives, you will be an expert and his old movement will be serviced. Cheers!

[Poljot]

And PLEASE do not place dial upside down on the desk - put it in a separate container face up. Any marks / scratches will be visible on black dial.

[jdm]

11 hours ago, andrewmayer said:

So I am assuming that no other parts on the movement affect the position of the date, only the date wheel. Is that right?

That is right, just like on the NH35 you've handled before and pretty much any other.

[andrewmayer]

20 hours ago, Poljot said:

And PLEASE do not place dial upside down on the desk - put it in a separate container face up. Any marks / scratches will be visible on black dial.

Thanks for looking at my photos. What I didn't show is this dial is unusual in that it has what looks like a built in chapter ring which means that the dial surface isn't touching the desk. I've worked with dials before and appreciate how sensitive they are. I was surprised that this dial already has scratches on it when I received it. 

[andrewmayer]

On 12/3/2020 at 4:42 AM, JohnR725 said:

just in case you needed I'm attaching the service manual.

technically that's not quite correct. If you look at the service bulletin towards the back is all sorts of interesting information like the movement comes with a variety of thickness for more than just an hour wheel it looks like it comes in 12 different sizes which will correspond to different dial thicknesses. So on page 22 of the PDF it explains that it's not just our wheel it's a whole bunch of other stuff. So I really would be good to get the right movement in the first place.

Sellita Brochure_technique-SW200-1_39.pdf 3.09 MB · 7 downloads

I measured the hour wheel with a digital calliper, and measurement "B" turns out to be 1.50. So am I to assume that the movement is size 3? Or is it likely to be a custom size for Bell & Ross due to the marking "DM09/A154"?

If I buy a standard size movement, would sensible to assume that I need to swap the old Cannon-pinion, Hour wheel,Sec. wheel pinion and Centre tube to the new movement to replicate the movement size? Or are there other parts that might be different sizes too?

(Is there even such a thing as "standard size"?)

I have realised that I need to practice first to gain confidence with the 2824. So I thought I would buy a cheap $30 Chinese 2824 from ebay (https://ebay.us/9eIyBk) to familiarise myself with the movement before working on the a new Sellita SW2001. Does that sound like a good idea? Or crazy?

Thanks again for you help!

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, andrewmayer said:

I have realised that I need to practice first to gain confidence with the 2824. So I thought I would buy a cheap $30 Chinese 2824 from ebay (https://ebay.us/9eIyBk) to familiarise myself with the movement before working on the a new Sellita SW2001. Does that sound like a good idea? Or crazy?

If you already feel comfortable taking apart and putting together watches then yes the above movement and start with that. My recommendation for starting out is to Chinese clone of the 6497 brand-new. A timing machine to verify your brand-new watches running and how well it's running. Then you can practice taking that apart putting it back together each time verifying with the timing machine that you were successful. Often times people starting with nonrunning watches can't tell if the problem with the watch still not running is them or the watch.

1 hour ago, andrewmayer said:

If I buy a standard size movement, would sensible to assume that I need to swap the old Cannon-pinion, Hour wheel,Sec. wheel pinion and Centre tube to the new movement to replicate the movement size? Or are there other parts that might be different sizes too?

(Is there even such a thing as "standard size"?)

According to the PDF there is a standard size which is number two on the list. The center tube does not need to be changed. You would only change is that if you had one of the really thick Dial.   looks like ideally if you could get a number three sized movement otherwise you get to swap a few components. Then I would try to put the seconds hand on before you swap stuff and see if it's going to work otherwise you have to take the entire watch apart for the seconds wheel. You might be lucky there is enough that the hand will work at least it's worth a try and make it a lot easier.

 

[andrewmayer]

7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

If you already feel comfortable taking apart and putting together watches then yes the above movement and start with that. My recommendation for starting out is to Chinese clone of the 6497 brand-new. A timing machine to verify your brand-new watches running and how well it's running. Then you can practice taking that apart putting it back together each time verifying with the timing machine that you were successful. Often times people starting with nonrunning watches can't tell if the problem with the watch still not running is them or the watch.

11 hours ago, andrewmayer said:

I'm curious why you recommend a clone of the 6497 and not 2824?

[JohnR725]

3 minutes ago, andrewmayer said:

I'm curious why you recommend a clone of the 6497 and not 2824?

First off if I made a Wrong assumption about your skill set I apologize. The reason I pick the clone of the 6497 is it's basically a large wristwatch. For people Who have never taken a watch apart successfully and reassembled it's a really good training watch. Which is why most schools I believe even Mark uses it in his Course it's just a really good starting watch for people who want to disassemble and reassemble a watch. But nothing wrong with the 2824 it's just a little smaller. So if you already have experience with disassembly and reassembling go for it. I just wasn't sure what your skill set was on disassembling and reassembling a watch.

Then I still recommend a timing machine because it's easy to disassemble something reassemble it and perceive that it's working But timing machines have a way of telling you that maybe it isn't quite the way it was before.