First repair

[SPIGGOTT]

Hi,

 

Looking for some advice.  I signed up to Marks courses and completed level2.

 

I just bought some further movements to practice on.  I bought 2 Venus 180 movements, one working but stops and starts and the other not working.

 

Stripped the non working one today, cleaned and inspected.  The pin on the bottom of the pallets was broken so swapped it from the second movement.

 

The only issues I have so far is that I struggle to install the pallet forks and bridge as well as balance.  Clumsy I guess.

 

once installed it was reluctant to run and now runs very poorly.  -9s/d,  180 amp and beat error (5.6ms)

 

In banging the balance and pallets about could I have caused any damage or do I need to regulate.  With the ST3620 it had ability to change beat and rate.  This only seems to allow rate.

 

any advice welcome....

[watchweasol]

Hi  When dismantling and rebuilding watches there is always the possibility of damaging pivots /balance etc, but yours is working althought low on amplitude.  It may be out of beat and therfore needs adjusting. Some watches have the means to adjust the beat error via moving the stud, some watches donot and you have to manually adjust the balance spring collet

Venus 180.pdf

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, SPIGGOTT said:

The only issues I have so far is that I struggle to install the pallet forks and bridge as well as balance.  Clumsy I guess.

once installed it was reluctant to run and now runs very poorly.  -9s/d,  180 amp and beat error (5.6ms)

In banging the balance and pallets about could I have caused any damage or do I need to regulate.  With the ST3620 it had ability to change beat and rate.  This only seems to allow rate.

watch repair is like a lot of things in life it's all about practicing. The only way you're ever going to get good at anything in watch repair is you have to continuously practice doing. This is why students in school work on the same watch over and over and over again until they can do whatever task they're being taught perfectly. If you're out in the field like you are working on live patients then things will be challenging. so only way you're going get good is you have to continuously practice doing this.

This is also why for newbies I recommend a timing machine and a brand-new Chinese clone of the Swiss pocket watch movement. Putting the watch on the timing machine before practicing on it noting the condition. Then disassembling reassembling back on the timing machine again and see if anything's changed. then doing this several times as you need to practice. The other thing would become apparent by this exercise is if a perfectly good running watch is no longer running after you assemble it it's probably your problem and not the watches. although you could blame extra what influences like you kids that played with the watch the cat walked on it etc.

So for instance of the two watches the one that was initially working you should have put it on the timing machine and observed its working condition. Then upon completion it should be working better than it was before as opposed to it has a problem and you don't know where the problem came from.

the 180° amplitude is definitely an issue that needs to worked on. The problem is we have so many directions to go in like improper handling of the balance wheel can cause all of your issues. Improper handling of everything in the watch can cause issues. Working on a watch that wasn't running in the first place and assuming that cleaning will fix the problem is also an issue.

then depending upon the age of the watch swapping parts can sometimes be an issue. Especially escapement components conceivably they may have been adjusted for the watch. You're probably okay with this watch but if you go to American pocket watches for instance it's always bad the swap components because they were usually hand fit. So if you do take a pallet fork off of another watch you do need to verify that seems to be working correctly in the watch you put it into.

Out of curiosity did you take the mainspring out verify its condition? When you look at the balance wheel in the watch is they hairspring flat is it bends in any on angle degree or anything? That's because of the hairspring is touching something you can lose a heck of a lot of amplitude. Also do you know how to visually verify a watches and beat? We've recently discussed that so I should bill a find a link to a discussion. Timing machine says the watches out of beat but at low amplitudes it tends to magnify that it's always nice to visually do it because the watch like this you're going to have to understand how to put it in beat as pointed out above by watchweasol you going to have to rotate the collet and you don't want to do that unless you understand what you're doing and understanding what you're looking at the see what you're doing.

 

[Tudor]

I'd dip the hairspring and demagnetize; then check static beat- with hairspring at rest (not oscillating), the impulse pin should be in perfect alignment with the pallet fork pivot and escape wheel pivot.

I would think those would move you forward, based on what you are describing.

EDIT to add: check end shake too.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Tudor

[watchweasol]

Hi The two documents attached below will give you a theoretical image of how it all hangs together and what points to consider in your diagnosis. Both JohnR725 and Tudor have elaborated  and given points  for your consideration. So in conjunction with what's been said  and the documentation  you have all that's required to come to a successful conclusion,  all the best and good luck.

Witschi Training Course.pdf TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

[SPIGGOTT]

Hi,

 

Probably a rookie error.  But when i put the balance wheel assembly back it appears i used the one of the donor watch that had not been cleaned.  I have now replaced with the clean one on the results are better but not prefect.

 

The ST 3620 i used in the lessons i got regulated to -2s/d and 0,0ms beat error with an amplitude of 328.  Before (new) it was running +12s/d 298a and 1.7ms be.

 

This movement is running -14s/d, 200 amplitude and 2.4ms be.   It been running consistent on the timegrapher for about 3 hrs.  I could not test both before as one was not working due to broken pin on pallet fork and the other only ran for a few seconds before stopping (very dirty inside came from a watch with not crystal).  

 

The ones i have been practicing on all had the ability to tune beat from lever on balance.  a couple of ETA's and some ST96-4 for calendar experience.

 

Thanks for the documents.  It looks like i need to look at adjusting by turning collet on underside of balance in order to set beat.

 

thanks

Edited December 1, 2020 by SPIGGOTT