Jump to content
  • 0
dpn

Measuring Small Hand Gauges?

Question

Hello everyone,

I continue to be very appreciative of the great advice I've received so far from this forum on a variety of topics.

Here's another hands question:

The Bergeon 30464 Hand Gauge Watchmakers Tool seems like a great tool for quickly measuring and categorizing hand gauges. Its smallest measurement is 0.30 mm, however.

How does one measure smaller second hand gauges? The best thing I can think of would be to use a micrometer on the hand pinions, but given the small difference between, say, a 0.27mm gauge and a 0.25 gauge, there seems to be a lot of room for error with a micrometer.

Thanks, as always, for any suggestions!

-- Dan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

I use plug gages, which are in 0.01mm increments, but they are expensive. If you need to measure the hole in the hand and can't measure the pivot (and a micrometer will easily differentiate between 0.25 and 0.27mm, you can easily see a difference of 0.005mm), you can use a small broach. Slide the hand on until it stops, and measure there. There's a little interpolation to do, but you will be very close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Thank you all for the great info! I really appreciate it. Sorry if these questions are stupid -- I like to think things out and talk them out to make sure I understand the correct approach to use on a given problem. I have very little hands on technical experience, and so things that may be obvious or intuitive to an experienced horologist baffle me without additional explanation.

If anyone is curious, the reason I'm asking this question is because I'm starting the process of learning how to heat blue hands. It turns out that plain steel wristwatch hands are very difficult to obtain cheaply, but there is a near limitless supply of old steel pocketwatch hands to practice with. As I practice with these, it'd be fun to measure them and see if I can assemble matching sets in dimensions suitable for use on modern wristwatch movements. 

Edited by dpn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
5 minutes ago, saswatch88 said:

When in doubt always go .01 smaller. You can always broch from there.

Thanks for the info @saswatch88. Would you explain what you mean by this -- stretching out the small tube on the hand? 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question; I'm a complete newbie, and basic tools and techniques are unfamiliar to me.

I've ordered a Bergeon 30464 and a quality digital caliper, so I should be squared away for measurement.

I will be buying a mishmash of old pocket watch hands, as they're the most cost-effective way of obtaining steel hands for bluing practice. I plan on measuring those hands to see whether I can find any matching sets that fit currently-available wristwatch movements, both in diameter and length. If it's possible to expand or contract a hand diameter using affordable tools, I'll be ecstatic.

All the best,

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
Thanks for the info [mention=5720]saswatch88[/mention]. Would you explain what you mean by this -- stretching out the small tube on the hand? 

Forgive me if this is a stupid question; I'm a complete newbie, and basic tools and techniques are unfamiliar to me.
I've ordered a Bergeon 30464 and a quality digital caliper, so I should be squared away for measurement.
I will be buying a mishmash of old pocket watch hands, as they're the most cost-effective way of obtaining steel hands for bluing practice. I plan on measuring those hands to see whether I can find any matching sets that fit currently-available wristwatch movements, both in diameter and length. If it's possible to expand or contract a hand diameter using affordable tools, I'll be ecstatic.
All the best,
Dan

Bergeon makes sets of cutting broaches. They are 5 sets for different size ranges. They are expensive but cheap broaches dont work well. Look for a used vintage assortment. A hand holder is needed as well. The broaches will cut some of the metal off inside of the tube expanding it. Just be careful when using them I usually only do maybe one or two twists and rechecking fitment. You can very easily cut too much off.9ecc58eef379eecd18a34be6b4621d3e.jpg
a25efe350cdaf28a46d7e5591273c6c7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

@saswatch88

Thank you so much for that great explanation, those photos, and those tips. This is super cool. I'll definitely research this more, now that I know what the correct terminology and tools are. I'm in your debt.

Is there a method or tool for doing the opposite -- reducing the tube diameter? I imagine that some sort of very precise and controlled crimping of the tube would work, but I also imagine that attempting to crimp a small seconds tube down by, say, 0.02 mm with a set of tweezers would be disastrous.

There would also be hand height concerns, of course, but I'm just thinking about whether a hand tube could be reduced to fit on a smaller pinion. Maybe that's the wrong approach too -- maybe its easier to try to increase the diameter of a pinion to fit a specific diameter hand?

Thank you in advance for your continued patience here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
[mention=5720]saswatch88[/mention]  Thank you so much for that great explanation, those photos, and those tips. This is super cool. I'll definitely research this more, now that I know what the correct terminology and tools are. I'm in your debt.

 

Is there a method or tool for doing the opposite -- reducing the tube diameter? I imagine that some sort of very precise and controlled crimping of the tube would work, but I also imagine that attempting to crimp a small seconds tube down by, say, 0.02 mm with a set of tweezers would be disastrous.

There would also be hand height concerns, of course, but I'm just thinking about whether a hand tube could be reduced to fit on a smaller pinion. Maybe that's the wrong approach too -- maybe its easier to try to increase the diameter of a pinion to fit a specific diameter hand?

Thank you in advance for your continued patience here.

 

 

some people use a cannon pinion tightener or nail clippers to crimp a Sweep seconds tube, It can’t be disastrous if you don’t know how much force to use. You can very easily just break the tube right off or over crimp it. tweezers has never worked for me. Personally I would not suggest any of these methods unless you are a seasoned watchmaker. I would just invest in some cutting broaches and a hand holder. I find that vintage sets work very well they do not make the steel like they used to. I bought a set from Esslinger for about $25 and they suck. For the same price you can get yourself a vintage set. And the hand holder is about 10 to 15 bucks. 

No the adjustment must be done at the hand not the Pinion. As far as height goes that would mean staking on a new tube and that Requires a much higher level of experience. Even I can’t really do it it’s very difficult. You can shorten the tube just know that you are going to cramp the end when you cut it or file it down. And then you’ll need to use rounding broches to round it back out without removing any metal and widening the inside diameter of the tube.

 

 Keep that in mind that there are two types of broaches: cutting broaches and rounding/smoothing broaches. Smoothing is better used with chronograph hands after cutting, Pivot whole shaping and cleaning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I think that a rolling fixture is useful only when making the blade from a blank. Othewise two strokes per side on an aluminum oxide do for me. I let the flat guide itself  and slide in one direction only. . Of course the smaller the driver the less tactile feedback.I hqve one screwdriver holder with an embedded oxide strip and find it extremely handy. 
    • Hi Just out of interest, was the broken part of the balance in the packet with the roller and the rest of the balance.   cheers  
    • Hi John and welcome to the happy factory
    • Even though your package is opened I don't suppose you get a picture of the bits and pieces of the package for us? Then a caution factory packages or basically the paper envelopes that typically watch parts come in except balance completes usually come in very special packages but any of the paper envelopes always require caution because it's standard operating practice for a lot watchmakers to put the old part back in the package.  Often times they didn't label that it's the used parts sometimes they do.
    • Hi all, Hopefully I'm on the right forum this time!  Thought while I was struggling getting my first project back together, I would try a pocket watch as I'd read they were a bit easier, so I bought this off Ebay. I've fallen at the first hurdle as I can't work out how to get the back off! Don't think it screws off, as I've tried without success, so thought it must prise off, but again no luck. I don't want to apply too much force, just in case it actually does screw off. Anyone any experience/thoughts on this please.    
×
×
  • Create New...