404 Club

[RichardHarris123]

This, I've no idea about the movement.  I'll let you know. 

[AndyHull]

I picked up this Kienzle 058a01 based nurses fob watch, principally for the mechanism to fix a different watch, however I now have a dilemma. I like the dial on this one, so do I keep it and look for another mechanism. Do I do a swap to the other case and make a Franken-zle... any thoughts? I guess it also depends on whether the dial will fit in the case of the other watch. Its a 404 club item, so I don't feel too guilty about swapping stuff around.

[RichardHarris123]

1 minute ago, AndyHull said:

I picked up this Kienzle 058a01 based nurses fob watch, principally for the mechanism to fix a different watch, however I now have a dilemma. I like the dial on this one, so do I keep it and look for another mechanism. Do I do a swap to the other case and make a Franken-zle... any thoughts? I guess it also depends on whether the dial will fit in the case of the other watch. Its a 404 club item, so I don't feel too guilty about swapping stuff around.

I would keep it whole, I like it.  The chain doesn't suit though. 

[AndyHull]

6 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The chain doesn't suit though. 

My thoughts too. I may have something more suitable in the stash.

 

[RichardHarris123]

On 4/2/2023 at 5:16 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

This, I've no idea about the movement.  I'll let you know. 

One jewel pin pallet and nearly as small as a grain of rice.  Hehe 

[AndyHull]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:36 PM, AndyHull said:

 

I picked up this little Tavannes mechanism with dial for 0.99p

Tavannes produced Ébauche and complete movements and other parts for many high end manufacturers including Pateke Philppe, Hermes, Zenith, Jaeger LeCoultre amongst others. They also produced a lot of the numeric command machines (Tavannes machines) for the watch industry.

I'll be interested to see if i can improve that dial with a little carefully applied white vinegar.

OK I'll be the first to admit it is far from perfect, but this is simply by removing the dial, applying white vinegar manually to the worst bits with a soft brush, then dipping the whole thing briefly in white vinegar, and finally rinsing off with diluted dish soap followed by rinsing with copious amounts of clean water. 

The dial is a little tired, but no more of the print came off while cleaning, and I was surprised to see that the mechanism wants to run. The hands are good. It needs a stem, but nothing else so far as I can see. The original stem is still there, but snapped off flush with the edge of the movement, so I should be able to match it with something from my stash. This all assumes I have a suitable case in the junk box of course, but I'm fairly sure I will have something.

This is what we started with.

Edited April 6, 2023 by AndyHull

[rehajm]

2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

OK I'll be the first to admit it is far from perfect, but this is simply by removing the dial, applying white vinegar manually to the worst bits with a soft brush, then dipping the whole thing briefly in white vinegar, and finally rinsing off with diluted dish soap followed by rinsing with copious amounts of clean water. 

The dial is a little tired, but no more of the print came off while cleaning, and I was surprised to see that the mechanism wants to run. The hands are good. It needs a stem, but nothing else so far as I can see. The original stem is still there, but snapped off flush with the edge of the movement, so I should be able to match it with something from my stash. This all assumes I have a suitable case in the junk box of course, but I'm fairly sure I will have something.

This is what we started with.

You have all the important details intact and fine detail is now apparent. The patina is consistent. I find it quite appealing. I’d say thats a huge win…

[oldhippy]

You should have tried a rubber that is what I used to use. 

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You should have tried a rubber that is what I used to use. 

Good idea, I may give that a shot too.

[Neverenoughwatches]

20 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Good idea, I may give that a shot too.

Tried these yesterday. They are some type of rubber, not as hard as a pencil rubber though. They dont work particularly well dry. 

[AndyHull]

Very gentle application of a small propelling pencil eraser and this is the improvement.
I didn't want to rub through the silver plating or remove any of the printing, so it took a little while. I was afraid I might improve it worse.
It looks even better close up, as that engine turning shimmers nicely as you move it around, and the twelve dial divisions are much more apparent.
I also cleaned up the back of the dial, although nobody is likely to ever see that except me.

In case you are curious, I'm fairly certain the Tavennes movement that goes with this dial is actually a Cyma 216, which put the date of the watch around 1930 which makes it around 93 years old.

[RichardHarris123]

Beautiful dial.

[oldhippy]

On those types of dials a rubber will only remove the dirt it will not harm the dial. That has come up very nicely. 

[spectre6000]

If you were to try to re-silver it, would it silver over the paint or just the already silvered/brassed parts?

[AndyHull]

8 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

If you were to try to re-silver it, would it silver over the paint or just the already silvered/brassed parts?

A good question. The short answer is I don't know, I've never tried. 

I guess it rather depends on how you set about re-silvering it. I would guess that it would be extremely tricky to re-silver, and you might end up with a patchy finish.

Also given how small the dial is, and therefore how small the lettering and markers are, there is a big risk that any attempt to re-silver may damage what remains of the printing.

You *might* get away with brush electo-plating with a very fine brush, but it would be very tricky, and might end up patchy. 

Rubbing silvering powder into the dial might be too abrasive and remove the printing.  If the dial was etched like a clock dial, and the lettering therefore was wax in the etching, then silvering powder might well work, but given the design on this dial is pad printed on top of the engine turned surface, I would say anything remotely abrasive is likely to end in disaster.

Has anybody got any experience of this?
 

[RichardHarris123]

I haven't tried it but I watched a video of using lazer transfer paper to customise dials. The numbers could be reapplied.  The results were quite good. 

[AndyHull]

A little bit of history for the Tavannes Watch company can be found ->here<-

Tavannes is in a French speaking canton so the 'es' at the end is silent: it should be pronounced ‘ta-van’.

Edited April 7, 2023 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

 

It lives!

Now I need to let it settle down, check it tomorrow and if all is well, regulate it.

I will also need to see if I can figure out how to adjust that complex looking arrangement of screws on the balance bridge. I must admit, I left that well alone while I was cleaning it, as I'm not 100% sure how it works yet. I also confirmed that it is definitely a Cyma 216, as it is stamped under the balance.

I will also need to find it a new case.

Even if I currently have nothing suitable to case it in at the moment, I think I have to admit, I've enjoyed a lot more than 99 pence worth of entertainment from it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by AndyHull

[spectre6000]

My first mechanical watch was a Cyma. Turned out to be a WWII German officer's watch from the eastern front complete with battlefield repair by bayonet. I did NOT know that when I bought it off eBay for $35!

That balance cock is something... Looks like it's for adjusting beat error via that screw up top near the F. You'll have to let us know how it works and what you end up figuring out.

[RichardHarris123]

30 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

 

It lives!

Now I need to let it settle down, check it tomorrow and if all is well, regulate it.

I will also need to see if I can figure out how to adjust that complex looking arrangement of screws on the balance bridge. I must admit, I left that well alone while I was cleaning it, as I'm not 100% sure how it works yet. I also confirmed that it is definitely a Cyma 216, as it is stamped under the balance.

I will also need to find it a new case.

Even if I currently have nothing suitable to case it in at the moment, I think I have to admit, I've enjoyed a lot more than 99 pence worth of entertainment from it.

Hello Andy, I'm confused by your comments on the barrel bridge screws. 

Just now, RichardHarris123 said:

Hello Andy, I'm confused by your comments on the barrel bridge screws. 

Oops, balance not barrel.  Silly me. Hehe. 

I'm guessing but maybe if you loosen the highlighted screw, it will pivot on the other screw to regulate.

[AndyHull]

19 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hello Andy, I'm confused by your comments on the barrel bridge screws. 

Strictly speaking its the balance cock, rather than the balance bridge, hence the confusion. It contains no less than four screws! One clamps the hairspring stud, the other three look like a complete head scratching session. I *think* you are meant to loosen the one at the rear of the maguffin (macguffin, MacGuffin... you choose) on the cock, and slide things around using the other two. I'll keep you posted if I figure it out. Ranfft describes the 216 movement thus "12'''1 / 214, 216 / 215, 217: 3 train cocks", so there you have it.. The MacGuffin on the thing has 3 train cocks. A cock screw and a stud screw. More double-entendres than a 1970s carry on film. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by AndyHull

[RichardHarris123]

7 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Strictly speaking its the balance cock, rather than the balance bridge, hence the confusion. It contains no less than four screws! One clamps the hairspring stud, the other three look like a complete head scratching session. I *think* you are meant to loosen the one at the rear of the maguffin (macguffin, MacGuffin... you choose) on the cock, and slide things around using the other two. I'll keep you posted if I figure it out.

Cock and bridge are reasonably interchangeable. Cock has one screw, bridge has two or more but basically the same thing. 

Sorry I can't resist but I feel sorry for a cock having only one screw.  Hehe. 

[spectre6000]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:51 PM, AndyHull said:

maguffin (macguffin, MacGuffin)

What kind of Scottish nonsense is that?  Is that the equivalent of doohickey, dumaflache, thingamabob, whatchamacallit, etc.? I googled it, and found something about plot devices.

Edited April 9, 2023 by spectre6000

[AndyHull]

While you are trying to sort your maguffin from your Mac Muffin, you might like to take a look at this real gem piece of 1960s tat.

Genuinely worn by John, Paul, George and Ringo, honest guv. 

It is Swiss, and probably legitimate authentic licensed tat, rather than knock off tat, since "Dirty Time Company" made quite a number of watches.

Lots of American election stuff for example with the likes of Spiro Agnew and Tricky Dickie Nixon on the dial. 

This is not one of those, which is a shame, 'cos they seem to be quite sought after.

However as well as hitting the 404 mark,  it *might* also qualify as having a blue dial, kind of.

No idea if it runs. No idea what is inside it, but for ninety nine pence, who cares? Its perfect for the 404 (Tavern) club. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by AndyHull

[RichardHarris123]

5 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

While you are trying to sort your maguffin from your Mac Muffin, you might like to take a look at this real gem piece of 1960s tat.

Genuinely worn by John, Paul, George and Ringo, honest guv. 

It is Swiss, and probably legitimate authentic licensed tat, rather than knock off tat, since "Dirty Time Company" made quite a number of watches.

Lots of American election stuff for example with the likes of Spiro Agnew and Tricky Dickie Nixon on the dial. 

This is not one of those. However it *might* also qualify as having a blue dial, kind of.

No idea if it runs. No idea what is inside it, but for ninety nine pence, who cares? Its perfect for the 404 (Tavern) club. 

Probably going to cause some carfuffle but I think the Beatles were very overrated.  

Probably a cheap pin pallet but we will see.