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Tmuir

Tame Side Fusee Clock in need of TLC

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Six or so years ago on a trip to UK I bought myself a Tame Side Fusee Clock.

I was actually after a more traditional English Fussee clock, but all the good ones I saw were a bit out of my price range and then I stumbled across this one in Edinburgh.

My family is from Newburgh in Fife which for those that know the population of Fife is only around 2000, so finding a clock that was obviously made for someone that had a business in Newburgh was too much to pass up on.

On returning home I had it serviced by a person that had a very professional website and talked the talk as a professional watch repairer. This was before I started to learn Horology.

When I got the clock back I was never happy with the clock and when I questioned what he had done he got a bit shirty with me and basically tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about.

At this point I just gave up and adjusted it the best I could which was the clock running fast by 10 minutes on the first 3 days and back to within a minute or 2 by 6 days, if I left it to the 7th day to wind it, it would be miles slow.

 

I stopped winding the clock 2 years ago and decided to leave it until I was ready to service it myself knowing it already needed a new suspension spring as it had a small kink in it and despite me asking the repairer to replace it he didn't telling me it was fine and I was wrong it needed to be replaced.

I have since learnt this repairer has a notorious reputation of ruining clocks and have also seen many examples of clocks butchered by this person, he had previously applied to join a professional association for watch and Clock Makers, but has been refused as he did not meet the associations guidelines for quality and ethics.

Long story over this is my clock.

I had already removed the movement when I realised I didn't have a photo of the case and dial, so the hands are just sat on the dial so you can see them, nice Scottish theremed hands with Thistles on them.

dial.thumb.jpg.c2409b84bd7cf13d8da5ff987d0bb3ab.jpg

 

Back of movement this photo was taken years ago before I had it serviced, notice the kinked suspension spring, it came back like this to me, also in this photo the spring appears to be held in place correctly by a screw, but it came back with a bent taper pin jammed in place of the screw.

movement1.thumb.jpg.c3a4a7c3d3ab1854115e4d8cc4d5f460.jpg

This is an odd fussee movement in that it has no ratchet and click for the mainspring barrel. It just has a brass plate that is screwed onto the plate after the barrel is tensioned up and as far as I can tell this is original. (We will get to the solder)

movement4.jpg.1b584e85f423a0b5e0452f69d59aca88.jpg

This is a photo I just took tonight with the front plate removed, notice the oil all over everything. I've yet to dismantle the mainspring barrel and clean it, but from what I can see under all the oil it looks like he cracked the edge of the barrel so the cover would not click back in, so soft soldered it in. I will find out for sure once it is cleaned but it looks like I may need to make a new mainspring barrel which is going to be an interesting exercise to say the least. I fully expectthe spring to be set too as I know he also did not replace it. Fun times aheadmovement3.thumb.jpg.6b9b8db481821814daebb501dec616fd.jpg

 

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19 minutes ago, Tmuir said:

Six or so years ago on a trip to UK I bought myself a Tame Side Fusee Clock.

I was actually after a more traditional English Fussee clock, but all the good ones I saw were a bit out of my price range and then I stumbled across this one in Edinburgh.

My family is from Newburgh in Fife which for those that know the population of Fife is only around 2000, so finding a clock that was obviously made for someone that had a business in Newburgh was too much to pass up on.

On returning home I had it serviced by a person that had a very professional website and talked the talk as a professional watch repairer. This was before I started to learn Horology.

When I got the clock back I was never happy with the clock and when I questioned what he had done he got a bit shirty with me and basically tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about.

At this point I just gave up and adjusted it the best I could which was the clock running fast by 10 minutes on the first 3 days and back to within a minute or 2 by 6 days, if I left it to the 7th day to wind it, it would be miles slow.

 

I stopped winding the clock 2 years ago and decided to leave it until I was ready to service it myself knowing it already needed a new suspension spring as it had a small kink in it and despite me asking the repairer to replace it he didn't telling me it was fine and I was wrong it needed to be replaced.

I have since learnt this repairer has a notorious reputation of ruining clocks and have also seen many examples of clocks butchered by this person, he had previously applied to join a professional association for watch and Clock Makers, but has been refused as he did not meet the associations guidelines for quality and ethics.

Long story over this is my clock.

I had already removed the movement when I realised I didn't have a photo of the case and dial, so the hands are just sat on the dial so you can see them, nice Scottish theremed hands with Thistles on them.

dial.thumb.jpg.c2409b84bd7cf13d8da5ff987d0bb3ab.jpg

 

Back of movement this photo was taken years ago before I had it serviced, notice the kinked suspension spring, it came back like this to me, also in this photo the spring appears to be held in place correctly by a screw, but it came back with a bent taper pin jammed in place of the screw.

movement1.thumb.jpg.c3a4a7c3d3ab1854115e4d8cc4d5f460.jpg

This is an odd fussee movement in that it has no ratchet and click for the mainspring barrel. It just has a brass plate that is screwed onto the plate after the barrel is tensioned up and as far as I can tell this is original. (We will get to the solder)

movement4.jpg.1b584e85f423a0b5e0452f69d59aca88.jpg

This is a photo I just took tonight with the front plate removed, notice the oil all over everything. I've yet to dismantle the mainspring barrel and clean it, but from what I can see under all the oil it looks like he cracked the edge of the barrel so the cover would not click back in, so soft soldered it in. I will find out for sure once it is cleaned but it looks like I may need to make a new mainspring barrel which is going to be an interesting exercise to say the least. I fully expectthe spring to be set too as I know he also did not replace it. Fun times aheadmovement3.thumb.jpg.6b9b8db481821814daebb501dec616fd.jpg

 

  those "now it all" guys are everywhere ! out a bounty on um.  vin

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The clock has now been stripped down, inspected and cleaned.

I think I have got lucky with the mainspring barrel. The soldering on the cap had been badly done as the parts hadn't been cleaned correctly so the solder hadn't flowed into the gap between the cap and the barrel wall. This allowed me to gently hold the the barrel in a vice and with careful application of my MAPP gas burner directly to the soft solder allowed me to melt it and wipe it off without heating up the whole barrel. I am not going to try and wet and dry off all the soft solder as I'm worried it will damage the lip of the cap so it won't refit. Once I have a new fusee wire I guess I will find out if it will go back together again. The mainspring is good and not set, although it was dry with no sign of oil or grease on it which is probably one of the reasons it didn't keep good time.

A number of the pivots have been badly burnished in the past giving me tapered pivots so once I have fixed this I am likely need to fit 3 or 4 bushes to the main plates.

When I went to dismantle the fusee for cleaning I found another issue, the keyway piece had not been aligned correctly and the screw holding it in place had been put in at an angle damaging the thread on the screw and fusee, so I will need to fit a new screw and either retap the thread in the great wheel or plug the existing hole and drill and tap a new thread.

For those that haven't seen inside a fusee I've prepared a few photos, please note this clock does not have maintaining power for for winding, if it did it would have 2 wheels, a maintaining power wheel and a great wheel, this clock just has a great wheel.

First picture shows the fusee in 3 parts.

From the left we have the fusee cone with the ratchet wheel on the right and the stop piece on the left.

Then we have the great wheel showing the fusee click and spring, unlike a regular clock the has the ratchet outside the plates fusee clocks have them inside the ratchet (They may also have another ratchet on the main spring barrel, but this clock does not).

On the far right we have the keyway piece.

fusee1.png.fae500ecd12ab32ebe6c665439da4631.png

This photo shows the great wheel fitted, the hole drilled in the great wheel by the click in the photo above lets you insert a small screwdriver to hold the click out of the way of the ratchet whilst you fit it on the fusee. At this point there is nothing stopping the great wheel from falling off, notice the slot cut into the arbor, this is for the keyway piece.fusee2.png.e2f55cc673e2f0dcc9de278d65c51704.png

This photo shows the keyway piece in the process of being fitted. You can see a screw hole in the great wheel at about 10:30pm, the keyway piece needs to be rotated around and then pushed home so the screw hole in this aligns with the one in the great wheel as per the second  photo below.

fusee3.png.7cf7bcc85b57da3e3efc9fa446a9d2ec.png

I should add that the keyway piece is slightly domed so that the great wheel fits snugly against the fuse, with no sideways movement, but not so tight that it binds on the fusee. As the thread is damaged on my screw I haven't shown it fitted in the photo, but you would normally fit it now which would stop the keyway piece from being able to slide back out.

fusee4.png.180fb463d6ab91f63a2e612ac281908e.png

 

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Hi Tmuir   Hello from Scotland.   A classic looking clock and will be well worth the time repairing, Its a pity some of the so called "professionals" bodge stuff up, I think its a profit thing time to them is money (forgive the pun) , We hobbyists have plenty of time no rent or overheads so can take as long as we need to do a good job. Like you I have come across some horrors , Bad attitude unforgivable.

 

 

 

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What absolute disgusting work by that person.  A few who are only after your cash and have no pride in their work.

I’m sure you will make a good job and put right the bodged up crap by that person. From reading your decryption of the clock, you know how it works and what the parts do. When it comes to fitting a new line, I suggest you buy the nylon-coated line, make sure it seats nicely in the groves of the fusee

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I do have a question for you though about the line oldhippy.

This clock just has solder blobs on the end of the lines to stop them slipping out on both end and the barrel only has 2 slots not 3 so was not tied in as per the regular way. It just went in one slot and out the next and the solder blob stopped it from pulling back out. Although now I need to make a new barrel I will be looking at using 3 holes to do it the traditional way.

But back to the solder blobs, from what I've read on the cheaper fusee movements made after 1900 this was a common way to fit the wires, and on the fusee end I think I will need to do this again. I'm assuming this will make it not possible to use the nylon coated wire if I need to make a solder blob on the end.

Have you ever worked on fusee clocks that used this method to stop the wire pulling out and if so is there any trick to making the solder blob, or just melt some solder on and don't add too much?

The fusee is now fixed, I redrilled the screw hole to take an 8BA thread, tapped it and reamed out the keyway piece hole for the screw head to fit the slightly larger size screw head.

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It sounds as if you would be happier with the line and solder, that is a good way and very safe, just make sure the blob sits in snug. With the nylon, you just burn it back until it seals its self into a mould.  I have restored many with this type of movement. 

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Thanks, just working out my parts order now.

Besides the parts I also need a couple of new broaches as the mainspring barrel bush will require broaches larger than my biggest size.

Cousins sells the larger cutting broaches, but doesn't do any smoothing broaches over 6mm.

Even M&P look not to do any bigger than 8mm, its not the end of the world if I cant find a large smoothing broach, but do you know anywhere that sells them up to just over 9mm?

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I couldn’t get them. I would add a little oil when cutting that does the trick. The finest crocus paper is also very good wrapped around a very large rat tail file. If you have a lathe that can take the barrel mores the better, you can insert the file into the hole and polish.  

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Yes I've got a pretty much fully kitted out workshop, previous to learning how to repair watches and clocks I used to collect and restore toy live steam engines and I would usually have to manufacture parts for them hence my workshop with a Chinese lathe, Sherline lathe, X2 mill, drill press, cold cutting bandsaw, bench grinder etc.

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For those interested here is a photo of the cracks in the barrel wall, you can see them extending out from both slots for holding the wire although the crack on the left side is not as visible it is cracked through the barrel too, hence why I Need to make a new barrel.

My order of brass tube and 1.5mm brass sheet arrived today, as the biggest cost is the postage I ordered more than I need, enough to make 2 more barrels.

I've got to wait for a cool day as its too hot to work in my workshop at the moment.

I've never made a barrel from scratch before so it will be an interesting learning experience.

1490701718_barrelcrack.jpg.31e866937060de4b144f79283ea12569.jpg2037704002_barreltube.jpg.f0f9238397c00606bf2b4cd37449f370.jpg

 

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I have made a bit more progress with this clock in the last week.

I have started to make the barrel.

During the week I cut a section of the tube off, machined the ends square but left it about 6mm over length to finish to size when I do the top cap, then cut a recess for the bottom end cap to sit in and today I made the bottom end cap.

I am using 1.5mm brass sheet to make the end caps and decided to try something I haven't done before, that is use a superglue chuck.

I got the idea from watching Clickspring's videos when he made the barrel for his clock.

Here is the superglue chuck prepared, the rings on it are to allow air in to help the glue dry.glue_chuck.jpg.159a002a61f111a18bd198f44ea8d025.jpg

 

The brass sheet was marked out, center punched and cut out roughly. The chuck was then covered in superglue and with the help of the live center in the center punch mark the brass sheet was glued to the chuck. Here it is partially turned to size.

bottom_cap1.jpg.5bae23642986d3af9dc5c7d46c45a3e8.jpg

To turn it to the correct size once I got it close I did several size checks, taking off 0.1mm between each check until it was a good fit.

Here it is turned to the correct diameter.

bottom_cap2.jpg.51c6d36e2cd92307d610b598d039ea65.jpg

 

I then drilled it out to 12mm ready for when I fit it with it's bush.bottom_cap3.jpg.01036c93abab607fa225ea5905efc58a.jpg

To remove it off the superglue chuck I just heated it with my MAPP gas blow torch for 10 or 15 seconds and it fell off.

Test fit of the bottom cap.

bottom_cap4.jpg.0ba889dbe5db711fa181ae3925e8392e.jpg

Notice how the barrel walls are sitting slightly higher then the end cap, 0.2mm to be exact. This is because I decided to go old school and rivet the end cap on.

Following Donald de Carle's advice I filed the end of the cap unevenly for riveting so the brass from the barrel tube will lock in against it during riveting to stop it being able to turn.

bottom_cap5.jpg.098d4855d7644aa8f3c8cc02100af7b2.jpg

 

Here it is half way through the rivetting.

bottom_cap6.jpg.6ad2a93a1f9004041ef4284d2cd98100.jpg

 

Now finished, its not perfect, but it won't come apart and it was a good learning experience.

bottom_cap7.jpg.ce9805a76748411a8830cac9c9c7870c.jpg

Top cap next which will be another learning experience as I have never had to make a snap in top cap before either.

 

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On 2/3/2019 at 10:31 AM, Tmuir said:

Thanks, just working out my parts order now.

Besides the parts I also need a couple of new broaches as the mainspring barrel bush will require broaches larger than my biggest size.

Cousins sells the larger cutting broaches, but doesn't do any smoothing broaches over 6mm.

Even M&P look not to do any bigger than 8mm, its not the end of the world if I cant find a large smoothing broach, but do you know anywhere that sells them up to just over 9mm?

I bought some large cutting broaches from R.N Horological http://www.rnhorological.co.uk/new_arrivals.htm

They do a set of 4 in sizes  7, 8, 9.25, 10.5 mm I bought mine last week but they have now sold out, they tend to sell a lot of cheap indian tools, German or Bergeon the set costs £23.50 they are good  they come packed in grease so need a good cleaning, 

Keep a eye out I'm sure they will get more stock.

Edit:

Sorry misread your post they dont do large smoothing broaches just cutting broaches

 

Edited by wls1971

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41 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

That’s nice work. I had to use a wax chuck. Super glue was about for gluing your fingers together. Or putting it on public toilet seats.:D

In my younger age I glued my fingers together with superglue many times when making model free flight gliders. :D

Never applied it to any toilet seats though.............. I'm starting to worry about your misspent youth now OH. :D

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