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Showing results for 'accutron' in topics.
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Sorry, I missed that you had actually taken the course yourself. Heck, you must be older than me. Hopefully you don't FEEL older than I. As far as oiling those endstones that generally stay in the plate, I just bought an Horotec wire oiler that is made for getting through holes into shock-protection jewels, specifically Inca. It seems to work OK. I suspect you have the Bergeon automatic oiler(s)? I wonder if the Moebius oils with the UV activated coloration would be visible, and therefore helpful. I think that's what I bought last time for both 9010 and HP1300/9104, FWIW. Good luck with your Accutron. Cheers.
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You talk about the notes jotted in the service manuals. I guess a lot of these were ones used by the students during the Accutron certification classes. There are a few notes in my 218 service manual relating to the sequence of setting the train wheels. I tried it the way the notes seem to say to do it but I found a sequence that worked better for me. I think I go Third wheel, fourth wheel, second wheel, index wheel. And while some say they have an easier time getting the pivots home by leaving off the lower fourth wheel jewel until after the other pivots are set, I found it easier having the jewel installed. Cheers. I'd sure love to attend one of those Frystack-type classes today. But his 214 presentation is certainly helpful, even applied to the other models. Presently I'm waiting on the service manual for the 221 series. I have one that's running and am considering trying to get it to run better, or at least without self-destructing. Heck. that's what it has me for.
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@JohnR725, Thanks for the link to the video. I will check it out. I know what you mean about some of the obnoxious music, etc., that people use. Obviously my days as a prime demographic sailed long ago. Some make it obvious that they never read, or at least don't reference during work, the very instructive Accutron service guides. These watches are tricky even with the guides. Thanks again. Cheers. I had watched this video a while back, but figured it wouldn't come in any more handy than the manual. I was wrong. I may have made another fatal error on this Accuquartz. I knew I had seen something about removing, or not removing parts from the US cleaner while the cleaner was activated. I didn't realize it was this video. And when I was forced to us the US to clean the finger jewels, I do like I usually do, and this is pull the basket as the cleaner is activated. Apparently, I may have demagnetized the fork. Hmm...I may have rendered a decent Accuquartz to a non-runner. I wonder if the forks are the same strength of magnetization on the 218's and 224's? Rats. I'll keep messing with it to learn more of what not to do. Thanks again for the link, JohnR725. Cheers.
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Greetings all, I've been working on a few Accutrons of late. It started with one that was gift to me. I find them very interesting, and marvel at their engineering. Who wouldn't, right? Of the two that are on my bench right now, one needs an index wheel, the other needed the index and pawl jewels cleaned better than a dip in One-Dip. Of course I didn't realize that until I put it (A 2242 Accuquartz) back together and it wasn't staying running and I looked at the jewels under higher magnification. Despite some advising against putting the fork/index finger/jewel and pawl-bridge/finger/jewel in the ultrasonic, I was told by an Accutron expert that it would be OK, so I did so. I definitely cleaned off the gunk. I used fresh cleaner and ran a rare earth magnet through the cleaner before putting the parts basket in. The issue I'm dealing with now is that the pawl finger got bent. It must have been sitting too low, or the upper fork screw was sitting too high. When I spun the finger around to avoid damaging it, it hung up on that screw. Then it somehow got lifted over the hack pin as I was trying to get the index wheel in position without high enough magnification to notice it happening. Anyway, I am now working to straighten the finger. It's not terrible, but I guess it needs to be rather perfect to work properly. First the jewel wasn't squaring with the index wheel. Then it was riding over the index wheel. Right now it will get the watch running slightly but it won't stay, at least at lower phasing voltages. It looks pretty square now, and isn't riding over the index wheel. The only obvious issue is that the stress limiter on the pawl finger is not engaged with the finger at all. Since the jewel was sitting so squarely with the index I decided it was worth at try, but the stress limiter may be more important than I hoped. These fingers are so fragile, and manipulation has to be done under pretty high magnification, I just want to know if I should give it up and buy a replacement or keep trying. Any help is appreciated. Thanks ahead of time. I'd include an image but I don't have a good way to do so with my microscope setup. Cheers.
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Hi all! I'm new to the forum, but have a few used Accutrons (214, 218) I Picked up in the 80s (before Mercury cells went away) and some recent 218s that came with silver oxide cells - some within original accuracy spec and others not. I've heard of Accucells and people installing schottky diodes in their watches (which seems like the better approach) but never thought much about it till recently. I'm a retired electrical engineer and remember that one of the benefits of schottky diodes was lower forward voltage drop and .2 volts was an often mentioned number. However, what that drop actually is depends on the particular diode temperature and the actual forward curent. For an Accutron, it's 8 to 10 microamps. And for the diode part number you are using: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/rohm-semiconductor/RB520CM-30T2R/5955710 the typical forward drop in that curent range is: 25C .15 volts -25C .24 volts 75C .06 volts 31C .14 volts estimated (skin temp) The numbers will all be about .02 volts lower at 8 microamps drain. It makes me wonder if a resistor (small axial, or SMT) wouldn't be a better choice. With a 1.55 volt cell, a 21.5K 1% metal film resistor will provide a voltage range (including current extremes and resistor tolerance) of 1.333 to 1.379 with lower sensitivity to off wrist temperature swings. The one concern that comes to mind is the initial circuit drain when the battery is first connected - and the related consideration for 218 versions that break the battery circuit when hacked. I'm guessing the coils could be modeled as resistors and capacitors as their ESRs (plus knowing the transistor specs) to estimate initial current and 21.5K voltage drop. It's a possible issue the diode wouldn't have. Any thoughts?
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Getting my Bulova Accutron running...
MrRoundel replied to mmitsch's topic in Quartz and Tuning Fork Battery Operated Watches
Thanks for the welcome, HectorLooi. I haven't worked on a 214 yet. It's on my bucket list. Unfortunately, they seem to go for a lot more money than 218 series and such. I had a friend that was into pocket watches when I first got into them in the nineties. Not long after we met, he started going after Spaceview wrist watches. I remember him talking about the "real deal" vs modified versions. I had no interest in wristies at the time, and certainly not electrified watches with weird vibrating forks. What started me down this road/rabbit-hole, was a guy who didn't want to spend what it would take to fix a 2182 that was his dad's. He offered it, gratis, to the first taker. I was the second one who saw it, but the first guy was out of the country and the owner had said he'd only ship to the US. Lucky for me, I think. That 2182 is still not running right, but rather fast and stuttering with a 1.55V battery. I'll probably end up replacing the index wheel. I won't get a good look at the teeth on the existing index wheel until I get my doubling Barlow lens that will take me to 90X magnification. Good luck with your problem-child 214. The 214, Spaceviews in particular, really are the classic Accutron. But the later models did have some nice improvements that apparently made them less finicky to work on. Cheers. -
Welcome to the world of humming watches @MrRoundel. It's really strange that so few people are willing to work on Accutrons but yet every Accutron that appear on eBay gets snapped up. Sometimes at ridiculous prices. The recalcitrant 214 that has been giving problems turned up again. This time the coil on the component side gave up it's ghost. Finally the mystery got solved. The problem was a defective coil which was about to break. I feel relieved and vindicated. Now to hunt for a new coil.
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Watchmaster MK II
clockboy replied to rob1crazydude's topic in Watch Timing & Testing Equipment / Timegraphers
Found this which might help as it shows pics of a Bulova watch being tested. https://jestineyong.com/bulova-accutron-watchmaster-600/ -
If it hasn't run "in years" there's a good chance it just needs an overhaul, no parts. My mom got an accutron (for my birth), 1973, changed batteries every 12-18 months, then I serviced it in 1998, 25 years later (I was in watchmaking school). It was impeccable, sorry to say, but I've also serviced Rolexes for friends where I'm assured it hasn't seen a bench in decades. Yes, if lube goes wrong after 5 years you can get wear. But 10 years, good watch, epilame your stuff, yeah . Accutron, you can go double service interval easy and then, it grinds itself to death. If you google "accutron service" you'll get the like 1 or 2 last dudes who do this as a passion. If they even manage to get a tiny bit of oil where needed your watch will outlive you!
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I have a Bulova Accutron that I got in the late 70's. It looks similar to the one below (mine is silver with a gold bezel). I would like to try to remove the back cover and replace the battery. Would anybody know the battery I would need? I've heard these used some type of mercury battery that's no longer used. And, is there a gasket I should try to buy in advance or should I be treating the threads with some type of sealant? And, to remove the back, should I use something like the Harbor Freight Tool shown (it's at https://www.harborfreight.com/watch-case-opener-91550.html). Should I also buy a holder for the watch? I've never done this before and actually am looking forward to it. Not sure if it'll work or not but I figure I should try. Anything else I should check on the watch? Sorry for all the stupid questions but I am a novice.
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I also came across similar jewels in Accutron 218s. I was told to leave them alone and just clean them in the ultrasound. I suspect the 3 notches are not designed for any special tool to remove them but to allow cleaning fluid to circulate between the cap and hole jewel. I oil them from the hole side.
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I recently picked up a late 1970's Bulova Accutron Deep Sea 19810 "devil diver" with the Caliber 242 movement. It is a very impressive movement in terms of its modular design and I would love to see it running again. I have taken apart the movement, cleaned the mechanicals and put it back together with everything running smoothly when manually manipulated. I installed a fresh battery and the stepper motor will click twice in one direction, not enough to move the seconds hand, and then reverse direction for a couple of clicks. This goes back and forth a bit then stops. Just to be sure I removed the hacking lever and checked the mechanicals and cannot find any fault. So I am guessing this is a problem with the stepper motor. I would appreciate hearing if: a. Does anyone have any further ideas about what might be wrong/ what I might try b. Does anyone have a 242 movement or stepper motor that they would sell me for this project? I have searched the web for a motor and cannot find one in stock, but that is not much of a surprise. Thanks in advance.
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Nice. Impressive boom. I have been playing around with different configurations for magnification and for now am using a Bulova Accutron microscope (30x). For awhile, I had a setup similar to yours (different style boom) but I never got the viewing angle and body position right. Probably should revisit that someday. Using stereo magnification just cannot be beat.
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A 344 has the same dimensions as a 343. That's what I use in my Accutron 214s. Is this an electromechanical balance watch or a tuning fork watch?
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I've been servicing Accutrons for some time now. But yesterday I just had an AHA! moment. When phasing the 214, I had been using the power from my Accutron 700 test meter to supply voltage to the watch. I would clip one lead to the ground strap and used one hand to press the positive lead to the battery terminal. This leaves only one hand to adjust the pawl finger. I was thinking of a way to make a battery clip hold the battery in place to make this procedure easier. Then it hit me.... All I needed to do was to flip the ground strap upside-down and use it as a battery clip!
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Hi and greetings I have been given the instrument shown below. It was the property of a deceased watchmaker who like myself was also a radio ham. The donor believed it might be an item of radio equipment. The instrument says VEGAL made in England. No other marks or serial numbers. When plugged in the unit hums, I don't think it's mains hum as the frequency sounds too high, the loudness being controlled by the volume knowb. The switch is marked WATCHES, CLOCKS CLOCKS + 10 and T. FORK plus various numbers. The display ("Nixie tubes" ) displays numbers, could be frequency, time etc. The jack socket is simply marked INPUT I recall back in the 60's (yes I'm that old) an acquaintance had a Bulova accutron watch who's mechanism was controlled by a vibrating tuning fork, which could be heard humming if held near the ear. SO!! flash of inspiration. 1) The insrument was owned by a watchmaker and the switch positions obviously relate to timepieces 2) It has a setting marked T Fork 3) It hums Is it some sort of frequenct standard/calibration device/diagnostic aid for tuning fork watches ? Can anyone help Many thanks in advance Geoff
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Assembling the Bulova Astronaut 214 bezel
clockboy replied to Blubarb's topic in Watch Repairs Help & Advice
Found this showing assembly sequence https://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/115197-accutron-astronaut-variant-guide-and-reference-info/ -
Hi i would be interested in this accutron spaceview but i have some doubt that it has not been converted. Could someone help me to understand if the glass, case, spheres and minute circle are contemporary with this spaceview? I have attached some photos Thank you in advance
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Library of Horology DVD...any good?
HectorLooi replied to LittleWatchShop's topic in Chat About Watches & The Industry Here
I have something similar bought off eBay. Except for the Accutron service manuals, I've not really explored the contents of the rest of my disc. But at $15.... you can't really complain much. -
Tuning fork/analog electronic clock idea
spectre6000 replied to spectre6000's topic in All Things Clocks
Current thoughts: Power supply will be 170VDC tube rectified. The heater supply will be split off and rectified (solid state) for 5V and/or 12V depending on how things shake out. Tuning fork pickup/stimulator will be amplified via a dual triode. Preferably something readily available and in current production (though with current events...). Likely a 12AX7 of similar if I can make that work with the 170VDC (preferred by most nixie tubes). I don't know that I'll be able to handle the counter logic work and be tunable without a microcontroller... I have a handful of Arduinos, and another similar microcontroller board or two, so that should be easy. I had a neat idea to control the nixies from the microcontroller: an array of reed relays! They'll click quietly, but for different reasons than your typical clock. Additionally, there will be more information in the ticking, as there will be extra ticks every 10 seconds, minute, ten minutes, etc. It would take a total of 40-something relays (one for each number that is used, plus a few for some neon lamps) if I want to keep it simple. I might be able to figure out a way to multiplex them, but I'm not sure it really gives me any benefits. Enclosing the whole thing will bump up the temp and keep it stable to keep the tuning fork thermally stable. The point of the microcontroller counter is to be able to reduce the frequency being counted to account for this AND any manufacturing variances. Both of these factors will be unknown until it's done and in service, so the ability to control it on the fly is necessary for any accuracy. I'm hoping to be able to figure out how to suspend the tuning fork, pickup, and stimulator magnetically. I know it can be done actively, but I'm not sure it can't be done passively. If it can't be done passively, I'll use a series of springs or something. Total mechanical isolation, so the only way the hum can get out is through the air. Similarly/convesely, if I want the ticking relays to be audible, I'll need to mount them/that assembly (however it works out) either to a soundboard of sorts, or I might be able to get away with just mounting them to the side of the case somehow. So... The big question is accuracy... I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get the accuracy to within half a Hz of whatever frequency the tuning fork oscillates at. 440Hz is sort of the standard tuning fork frequency, but higher frequencies obviously decrease the potential error rate. It needs to be big enough to fit the look I'm going for (I don't know exactly how it's going to work proportionally), and it needs to be magnetic (apparently, a lot of tuning forks are made of aluminum these days). Assuming 400Hz (decreasing the 440Hz for temperature and to make a round number) and spherical chickens in a vacuum, I should be able to just barely edge out an Accutron at +/-1 minute per month. I'll have a higher frequency, more stable temperature, and no motion to account for. If it is close enough that it's not meaningfully out (~+/-5 minutes) over the course of 6 months, I'll be thrilled. I'm 99% sure this is my next big project. I've got another similar project currently in the works that I need to finish to make room though, and there will be some learning curve to this. I intend to prototype a subsystem at a time, probably starting with the tuning fork pickup/stimulator. I'll copy an existing transistor based circuit to start. It's a semi-known quantity, and I'll use it as a baseline. -
https://hackaday.com/2021/02/13/tuning-fork-keeps-this-throwback-digital-clock-ticking/ https://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/projects/electromechanical-clock/ I stumbled on these in one of my newsfeeds the other day. Macro scale Accutron clock project. A third clock project popped up at the same time, but it's not exactly a time based clock. I guess these are cool all of a sudden maybe? Meanwhile, back at the lab, I've been learning about analog electronics. Building a 100% analog phono preamp on the side of my desk not occupied by work related detritus (watchmaking, unfortunately, commands nearly entirety of my desk surface, so it's been playing 3rd fiddle at best lately). Anyway, digging into the first one got me thinking. He mentions at the end of the video that accuracy varies according to ambient temperature, and there's some conversation in the comments about ways of compensating for that. My knee jerk reaction to an image of the final project was that the 7 segment displays could be replaced with nixies. The schematic for the tuning fork regulator part of the clock could easily be done with a simple and readily available dual triode. I'm not sure about the rest of the circuit yet, but those are bridges that can be crossed. The interesting thought involved the intersection of the analog electronics, the heat they produce, and the regulation of the tuning fork. The heating elements in the tubes put off a lot of heat. Especially if the entire thing were to be executed in analog circuitry (rectification, amplification, display, and I haven't figured out the totalizing/counting aspect of it yet). If all of that could be crammed under a double walled glass bell, there'd be some serious heat in there. Possibly enough to cause problems. BUT I think it might be self regulating.... As the heating coils get hotter, resistance drops. If the ambient temperature is higher, they consume less power, yadda, yadda, and I think you'd end up with a pretty stable, albeit high, temperature to keep the fork humming along at a pretty steady rate. That rate would NOT be the rate stamped into the side of the fork though, so there'd need to be some means of tuning that regulation... Not really sure about that yet. Not sure I'm going to do this yet. It's a pretty tall leap to get from basic AC rectification and signal amplification to a totalizer circuit of some sort, but I haven't had time to do anything more than read that article/watch the video. I recall having seen another guy on youtube (handle has to do with rabbits in Japanese or something) that might have done something along the lines of a counter/timer. Might be worth looking into that. Videos require less eye strain and concentration than reading, and my toddler likes videos on daddy's computer, meaning I stand a chance at being able to do such a thing. Anyway. Thought I'd drop this here to see what the horological hive mind thinks on the subject.
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Which Watch Have You Got Coming In The Mail ? Show Us !!!
Jimg1969 replied to SCOTTY's topic in Your Watch Collection
Bought a lot for 16.00, looks to have a vintage bulova, a small accutron and one that looks to be a vintage mido multifort with a rectangle case. Should be here Thursday, can't wait. -
My first fix, almost, Timex, calendar stuck
HectorLooi replied to nickynoodles's topic in Watch Repairs Help & Advice
If you are really looking for a challenge, try an Accutron 214. You already have all the necessary tools for the job. I know you'll eventually succumb to it.