Leaderboard

the unfortunate reality of watch repair is everybody has to deal with losing parts I lost something yesterday one Meadow hatted the next minute I did not and it has not surfaced as of yet. Or their broken parts and if you want to fix the watch they have to be replaced. http://www.sellita.com/index.php/en/movements let's take a trip let's go someplace online let's look at the first link so at our first destination you'll see a reference to the case number if you enter the case number and properly confined casing parts such as Seiko. I almost never actually look at that I scroll to the bottom where you find categories that will be the next link http://cgi.julesborel.com/ so our next link is let's look up Sellita which unfortunately brings up a problem look at all those watch manufacturers and then you look at all the subcategories and then we get to this company and almost nothing but fortunately you're picking a 200 series. because as you can see there are almost no parts listing just a few other different movements and none of the new stuff http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?begin=SEL_&end=SEL_&label=Calibres_Manufactured_by_SELLITA one of the problems we face is in the early days when there were way way way more watchmakers their way more material houses there were way more people doing cross referencing of parts. As the number of everything decreases the ability to find parts and cross-references also decreases. But this website is by no means the only online site where you can cross reference parts. Is just one of the most convenient that I like to use now where is our final destination? Well you set a specific watch looks like they are both the 200 and the 200 – one. so our final destination almost are the parts for the SW 200.. oh dear this is going to be a problem for you. We may have to rethink the watch you start with because there's a problem now I have to go get the actual tech sheet for the 200 to see if it is a problem or not. now just to remind you the reason why this is a long message and you'd not getting a quick fast answer is because everybody has to go through the steps if they want to find stuff there is no easy fast solution. Now back to the problem image attached that's what happens when you look for the tech sheet for the SW 200 basically a lump everything together in the 200 series. then there's the other strange problem even though we have a parts listing the 200 series down below a pathway to 200 does not exist only to dash one exists? At least that's the tech sheet of looking at I will assume that all the parts interchange which they may or may not. okay the official tech sheet doesn't solve the problem I'm having from the parts listing. http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=SEL_SW200 right about now I'm questioning my sanity of why am I doing this message in a way and is anyone even going to read it? Okay so what's the problem I'm specifically looking for a spring to hold in the balance jewel assembly when you look at the parts listing above they list more than one type and the tech sheet only shows the one type? Oh and thinking about parts issues one of the problems that comes up is is a conceivable that this watch had variations? The often find out Swiss watches where the lower grade will use a different type of balance shock protection and that means differing types of spring is depending upon which watch you have. If you watch it was manufactured over a long time span it may have started with no protection and moved through various ones depending on pricing etc. you can end up with some vintage watches that have lots of variations. Then yes that makes it really hard and confusing to find parts as I pointed out everybody has parts problems now back to the insanity okay we have this link is for the spring that by the way you shouldn't lose on this watch did you look at the link that I gave prior probably not. If you look at the link you scroll to the bottom there is a picture that explains why the Chinese Springs fallout and the Swiss typically do not. Not that they won't occasionally come out typically the lower ones will and then their real pain to get back in sometimes it's easier just to pop the entire assembly out typically the upper ones will not come out unless you break it off you have to try really hard to get it to come out now back to the link we have a spring number but what kind of a spring number? we get a number that has number 400 that's a category number it that tells us that it's a spring but I'll see if I can find it image to make sure and the other is the actual number. This is a place where newbies will have confusion whenever looking up some part and parts have identification numbers usually to be printed on the package is packages of watch parts are really tiny so they will have a number that's equivalent to like insisting balance staff they will have a number which tells you that the balance staff but you need the second number to tell you which watch it's for. then conveniently the book I'm looking at does not list with the 400 series this not very helpful. http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=X\ZD_ETh 400/811S UPPER/LOWER SHOCK SPRING, INCA oh and now we get to the next problem where my enthusiasm for doing this question is now coming to an end went to get a part number you go to a slightly different webpage from this company and you can look up the part and see what it costs and whether it even still exists except apparently the part doesn't exist oh dear. http://www.julesborel.com/home?search=400%2F811S then I go back to the tech sheet and the spring isn't listed the entire jewel assemblies listed. Budget also noticed a look at some of the parts they have exact part numbers and some of them say variations it's back to we have variations. Now if I absolutely needed this pars I would just call up my local material house and asked Debbie here's my parts number and not offload the responsibility of finding the part on my local material house not very helpful for you though. not looking like a happy ending at all okay worst-case you can purchase this and you will have to disassemble if it's the upper one to get the spring out. http://www.julesborel.com/products/Sellia/SEL-SW200-1-MVT-Sellita-Watch-Movement feeling frustrated I noticed they give a stem number yes the search system does work you get a new stem http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.25048/.f one of the problems were having is in order to find the parts you need a part number and order have a part number somebody asked to list the part number yes that seems really obvious of the part number isn't listed in the tech sheet than the material houses probably won't have the part number because where would they get a part number except. A lot of the problems were facing is in the old days they used to have cross reference books plus the particular balance spring assembly they use the list those spring is on the website at least if it was made with in the time span that the book existed or the cross reference existed. So a lot of the stuff were working with is old my distraction has almost come to an end yes I'm just doing this to distract myself. Because typically if anything gets this long no one's ever going to read this anyway. So looks like Tom was correct if you Google the right phrase you come the right page eventually. So he can get entire upper assembly that includes your spring yes I know you wanted the spring only. Then as I pointed out some more up above on the Swiss version you cannot just pop the spring and you'll have to disassemble the jewel assembly to get to the spring another crisis possibly another tool. But it does give us a clue of something. One week ago back to one of the websites up above look up cross reference of parts and get an exact part number or https://www.ofrei.com/page1765.html then there website used to be a way more friendly but we can eventually get there hopefully now at the link below you'll see pretty pictures of stuff you want to scroll down until you get to a choice.your choice at the very end is product catalog the second item you can click the plus on the far right-hand side of your lucky you get to the product catalog. if you look around long enough will stumble across an image which and is going to attach. Then of course you can look at the cross-references notice they don't cross reference the watch your looking for. Maybe that means the part doesn't actually exist or we get stuck with crappy sites that make it hard to look up stuff . It's amazing the technical data you can accumulate with time getting tired of searching I'm just attaching a PDF page out of their catalog. Yes just like the website where the catalog is fragmented as opposed to one Log in one place their PDFs of the separate sections is now attached. So I should a given you enough information to find your spring. Is it looks like it is a standard and a spring which means you can go back to the website look up the movement and find the spring of actually yourself but you're not going to lose it you're probably just going to break the spring because as I mentioned before the Swiss version the spring does not fall out. At least not typically will have to try really hard https://www.incabloc.ch/en/shock-absorbers/ 1252_Incabloc By Factory - Eta.pdf

I just finished another Seiko 6309 diver over the weekend and finished it off last night, see before and after shots Front: Tape was the only thing holding it together, here is the back of the case: And here is the view when I opened the case : And when I got the movement out: The hands were completely fused to the cannon pinion and the dial paint eaten through to bare metal After cleaning in my 'home-brew' 566 and rinse solutions (please see my other thread, HERE) and then polishing the glass and case, then replacing the dial and hands with aftermarket replacements and a new cannon pinion from a donor watch along with a new bezel (because I had a spare so why not), here is the final result: Very pleased with the result

The watch that is my avatar is the one I am talking about. I am wearing it now and it keeps excellent time. Note, however, it sat in a drawer for perhaps 30 of those years but I have been wearing it off an on for the last two years. Pretty sure it was serviced using Elgin M56-B. My dad would always recommend servicing once per year. Of course he was motivated to generate business...lol...and I ate a lot of groceries! I will probably service it this year. The movement is a C11KAS and I have serviced one before, so it should be straightforward.

A 17 jewel "Cara", probably Swiss, probably Tritium lume and if so, probably 1960s. No idea what is in it, or for that matter exactly who made it, so its another 0.99p pot luck watch. @rehajm Regarding erasers..... These Propelling pencil erasers. Just search for something like "Replacement Erasers Rubbers for Mechanical Pop Up Pencils - Refills". Here is a UK seller with a pack of ten, and a Chinese seller with a tub of 70. As far as I recall I bought 2 packs of 20 a while back (some of which I actually used in my propelling pencils). https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394061043880 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125461035012 The technique is to rub very gently, as you would when erasing a pencil mark on a delicate sheet of paper. Just enough friction to lift the dirt, and take your time. Gently does it. Cleaning the dial before hand with white vinegar and rinsing with dish soap and then clean water took off a lot of the surface dirt. The white vinegar brightens up the silvering on the dial, and in fact the gentle rubbing with the eraser brightens it some more, converting it from a sort of grey white to a shimmering burnished silvery hue (which the camera fails to do justice to).

Leave my checker plate watch alone, you bullies. Hehe.

They are indeed an economical movement or as we say in the South...crap. No stud screw is the worst of it...I will say as fiddly and pointless as they are as restorations I gained considerable practice with the staking set and a sense of accomplishment when my repaired sweep second Empire hugged zero on the tg. Also, Americans don't know much of the brand so Empire is to Everest is to Astral. My newly reborn Empire held court with its loud tick one cocktail hour while the GMTs and Panerais barely warranted attention. Offer it on the EBay to the yanks, I say...

Posted this up a good while back, but seeing as it fits in well and with some good History . Here is my Nato redialled Record DD, inside a 022K. Also has a broken staff pivot but i have around 20 of these. The serial number on the dial is designated specifically to Record, other brand redials will have different serial numbers . Redialled i would guess as a matter of routine service when called into army stores and to decommission the radium lumed dials. Serial number beginning with the letter L as assigned to the Record company. As most will know the Dirty Dozen watch was nick named after the film. So called as the British military approached 12 Swiss watch companies ( there is currently a british company called Vertex making the Vertex DD with some kind of dubious family connection imo but marketing stories sell, just look at the Daniel Wellington name crock of shite )with the task of making their mill spec watches. Look for the WWW stamp on the back. Wrist Watch Waterproof. These 12 companies in alphabetical order as i remember them easier this way. Buren. Cyma. Eterna. Grana. IWC. JLC. Lemania. Longines. Omega. Record. Timor. Vertex. In actual fact as part of the story as i read it Enicar was also approached but dropped out for whatever reason. All are worth a few bob but the Grana is the one to really look out for. Out of the approximate 250,000 DDs that were made the Grana (KF or KFG ) had an estimated manufacture of 1000 to 5000 ( not sure if anyone actually knows ) Coincidentally i do have 100 balance staffs for the Grana DD half fixed jewel half shock jewel. Great i have 100 staffs that will likely never be wanted .

I think thats pretty good. Dont expect a lot from the Empire, the low jewel count usually indicates some worn pivots and pivot holes and they were often wrist worn to death. But you might be lucky. Here is my GSTP Frencha with a Buser 105 movement inside. The staff has a broken pivot and I managed to find a packet of 2 in a cheap job lot 4 weeks ago. I have 2 goes at getting it right, putting it off for the time being, strange things happen when i ticker with a watch that has a lot of history. This one has already twisted my melon once when i first opened it up last year. Annnnyway. Here is its Military serial number on the back, and broad arrow with an S stamped through that indicates it was decommissioned and sold possibly to its owner ( dont ask me how but i think i have his name ) Moving swiftly on, Buser became part of the well respect MSR group in 1961 that included Phenix , Revue and Vulcain that made good quality timepieces. And looking inside this is no exception and still in good condition.The crystal is battered and i took a bit of a risk on the dial but it is perfect.

So here are the preliminary results for my "Home-Brew 111" cleaning solution: 0% Ammonia Recipe (Control): As expected this produced a clear light liquid with no odour of ammonia. 0.5% Ammonia Recipe: This produced a cloudy light liquid, with no smell of ammonia. No water layer seen (at this stage) 1.0% Ammonia Recipe: This produced a clear light liquid, with very slight smell of ammonia. No water layer seen (at this stage). I was surprised to see that this was clearer than the 0.5% mix, so I repeated it, hence 2 bottles in picture. 1.5% Ammonia Recipe: This immediately produced a thick liquid with the consistency of hand soap and was able to suspend air bubbles in the liquid for quite some time (see photo above) and had a distinct/strong smell of ammonia. No water layer seen (at this stage). Preliminary Conclusion/Way Forward After the 1.5% result I saw no point in continuing to 2.0% and above. My previous mix attempt produced the gel after it was left to settle for several days, so I will leave all of the samples for a while to see if there are any significant changes and report back, but so far it looks like the 1.0% recipe is looking good .

Just bought this. Comes with what I think is an outer case.

Hi @Flamingo, If you check on the Jules Borel database here it tells you that you need a 975.03 which you can get from Cousins here.

Here are my Tudors. Both dials have been refinished before I received them.The first one should be two toned and should not say Rolex.

I think a round of applause is due for our John . He stuck with it to get an answer and hopefully anyone else reading did also. He's worth every penny in my opinion, oh just a minute let me think ( yes i am taking the pee but ever so slightly ). John doesn't actually get paid for his amazing teaching input or any other pro that helps us out for that matter. We all appreciate you very much ❤ ( no I'm not pissed )

Yes, I sometimes wonder why I torture myself

Did Smiths use anything besides the Dennison Aquatite? I see those cases come up for sale from time to time...also some Everest donors that aren't cost prohibitive...

For the second hand, you could measure the pivot. For the case, good luck!! Hehe. I wonder if the same case is used on different models?

I could do with a good non skid surface like that in some of the basket cases I deal with, since there is so much WD40 sloshing about in them, there's a real risk you might slip and break a leg.

Short of buying one, using it to take your measurements and then selling it on again afterwards, I'm not sure how you could proceed. This one might fit the bill. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145023614173 Its a little pricey though, but then again, this particular model is highly sought after.

It must be the movement Rich, you're dazzled by all that sparking perlage aren't you ? Come on admit it Sorry if it sounds like I'm knocking your first French movement Rich but the inside kinda reminds me of the checkerplate thats on the rear step of my van lol.

An Empire was my first success, yes sounds like galloping horses. I'm keeping that one but this will be resold.

Not serviced for 40 years, you'll get shot. Hehe.

Nice, the Cyma isn't running. Probably the same problem. I'll update everyone when I receive it. I wasn't really interested in the Smiths.

£25 for both and a Smiths Empire. Not bad, I think.

Hello and welcome.

Welcome to the forum,enjoy

My guess would be early 40s...

doubtless go back to the original question can we find a spring or not? I wonder if the Chinese really make their own Springs? They make their own settings that's the problem would be nice if they just purchased Springs from the Swiss wouldn't that make it simple for us okay the link below which I mentioned up above you scroll down towards the bottom you can buy an assortment. That means you can play with the spring and the setting in all of this stuff. You go to eBay but you run into a minor problems with assortments. Oh and it's not just on eBay some of the online material houses do this. Where I work when my boss is ordering parts he starts looking at things like assortments like all we could use this and one of the assortments was an assortment of well all the exact same part. So on the eBay sellers when they have an assortment of jewels I do have to wonder whether you really get what the assortment shows or not. https://www.ofrei.com/page615.html okay here's the link to the eBay sellers site I'm sure others have assortments. You scroll through the list of generic assortments book interestingly generic lots of variety of interesting Springs that we may or may not have ever seen in her entire life. Oh and is the minor problem with assortments a lot of times there may only be one part in the whole assortment is worthwhile at all the rest are worthless conceivably these may fall into that category although they do look pretty and do see one assortment of the proper type spring looks like again about 10 of $10 https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=lucretia1986&store_name=lucretia1986&_oac=1&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562 now back to the original problem? then yes this is confusing with no guarantee of a happy outcome snipped out an image from one of the links above. okay confusion is just go over something and 6497 and 6498 is basically identical except where the small secondhand goes. Whether one is in a pendant set or a hunting case. Or basically where the small secondhand goes that would not change the rest the components of the watch the original marketing or model number would be 6497 that it's been upgraded to 6497-1 which really means the same as the number without the – and then the – two is the upgraded version where things change. So I look at the image that I snipped out we see that the upper item is the complete upper setting of everything for the – one version but right below it then states that it's also the upper and lower for the – two version? Then the second item state since the lower assembly for the non-– version and for the – two version it's the lower setting assembly except up above it's said both the setting assemblies with the same? Oh and to make things more interesting the second part number is a standard Incabloc part number 475.20 that gives us something to work with but what about the upper number 400/1736 that is also standard part number typically found in the bestfit book. What I was hoping for here was if the upper and lower springs of the same size that means the original posting person could measure get the dimensions and we can look in or I could look in my parts book and see if we can find a spring that might closely resemble what was missing. Or at least with figure out whether the current spring you are using because conceivably because the Chinese like to do this in other words they like to have variation conceivably the current variation does not match any thing of the past. As you may have grasped the Chinese are not into the spare parts business there into the inexpensive cloning of watches business. reference material? There are the physical best books the latest version and I think was in the early 70s which does limit what were going to find in it but there's also bestfit on line. The unfortunate problem is you really need both the online version is nice for looking up stuff but there is no pictures it also presents an amusing problem of despite what the website indicates the upper and lower the same which we know are probably not. The reason why they're typically not the same is the time you're servicing a watch look at the visible side notice how it's pretty the finishing is usually nice the tools are physically bigger look at the dial side that no one ever sees the jewels are typically smaller and the finishing is not as nice so we should have a bigger jewel assembly and a bigger spring on the top side of smaller on the other side and the bestfit listing we can see the upper and lower are different. but studying my image more carefully it does look like the upper and lower spring are the same size? oh the other reason the settings would be different is there mounted differently plus the upper is typically thicker to accommodate the regulation components and the lower is typically thinner so yes maybe they really do have the same spring so for the original posting person since you have nothing to lose preferably don't lose the spring take the lower spring out to see if it will fit in the upper one. Yes you can struggle to put it in you can fight putting it in and when it goes in it literally drops in a just it is. You can either you hold it carefully with your tweezers I found my hairspring tweezers worked better don't know why maybe just because they seemed more smaller it also take whatever your favorite sticky clay for picking up fingerprints is and just barely grab the end of it and drop it in place but I found is much harder to do it that way. So just has to go in at a 45° angle rotate a little bit not slide back out preferably and then you could put in place. All because the Chinese skipped one manufacturing step because it was easier to do. So if we can confirm the upper spring and the lower springs are identical on your watch then we can attempt to see if the Swiss make a suitable sized spring that silly reason were looking at the upper and lower is to find a spring that fits your watch and that would include any other spring on the watch that currently fits. Oh and you also notice the second image the same as the Swiss the standard version uses the one time spring and the cheaper version uses the other type spring which is why there's another set of setting parts that's for the cheaper version of the watch. Which the Chinese don't clone because why clone the cheaper version when you're already so cheap anyway

Yes position of watch on the timegrapher.

Hi all, Writing from London here, I first introduced myself three years ago when building my first watch (still running) but pulled back from watch making as time and money was redirected. Since then visits to antique shops and markets always see me looking for any buried treasure in the shape of watch movements. I have a couple of projects I’d like to complete by the end of the year and I know I’ll need this forums help so I thought it’d be polite to re-introduce myself before posting for help. The first two hurdles are a Smiths Everest mechanical movement without a case and the second being the cleaning and rebuilding a Trolexa Rallye GT mechanical watch purchased as a challenge. WRT has always been encouraging place and I’m looking forward to upping my game with your help this year. All the best.

I have a cunning plan… that will be submitted for peer review.

I think you're correct, it will be a short conversation, unfortunately. If the case was 9k gold, they are like rocking horse s£%t.

Thanks both, all watches mentioned below! I’m going to need to buy a camera accessory to take better close ups. The first two are of the Smith’s Everest movement I want to put in a case, and the third is the Trolexa which I have dismantled and now need to clean and re-assemble, and the last is of the watch I built 3 years ago. I’ll post questions in the appropriate section tonight, starting with the Everest (as I fear that will be a short conversation).

The common thing with pivot holes that are not jeweled is wear not only to the hole but also to the pivot. As I cannot see the complete wheel it is possible that the pivot was worn and someone has shortened it, this could also cause the wear to the hole because on the up side it doesn't appear to show much wear. You will need to reamer out the hole and re-bush it but you will also need to change the depth of the oil well for the shorted pivot. The alternative as its a Waltham is to find replacement parts the wheel and the top plate.

Welcome back, we all love photos on here.

Welcome back. How about you showing your build I'd like to see the movement.

Of course not knowing what exactly you have done, it is hard to advise how to do it differently Next to that, the new bearing seems "slightly better"; how good or how bad is that? Perhaps this video may help?

A round of applause for @JohnR725indeed. We need to accept that some things are easy, the balance staff is broken, something's like finding parts, can be nearly impossible.

@JohnR725, first off, thank you for that very long and detailed post. That actually is a lot to digest, and it will take me some time to do so. It gives me a good understanding of some of the things that I need to understand in sourcing a part. I can't say I fully understand what you all posted, but I will have to reread it a few times to make some sense of it all. Secondly, at one point in that lengthy post, you had asked if I had actually read one of your posts about the Swiss Incabloc and how it is different than the Asian one. Yes, I actually read all of your posts when you reply to me. Again, I don't fully understand all the time, but that will come with time. In one of your posts you mentioned that there had been a disillusion about the Asian shock and the Swiss one, and I did find that discussion, and you had some more pictures on that one as well. I also found it helpful on how to install the spring with the picture you drew with the 45 degree angle to the channel. Thank you again for your patience and help in helping me (and others) to learn about watch making. You have more knowledge than I will ever have, I'm sure, and I greatly appreciate everyone who has been helping me to enter this sometimes very scary world... for me it will more than likely never be a career, but something that I can hopefully do to as a hobby for enjoyment and relaxation (is that even possible to be relaxed when working on a watch?) Thank you again!

I know the Elma machine at work as a counter well for just about everything in the machine of when stuff needs to be changed but there's definitely a counter on when to change the fluid. But there's also an override button which says remind me later. And then of course we can push the button again and only when it starts looking like maybe it's not cleaning the watch is properly do we think about changing the fluid. Which we don't actually keep a schedule but I would say it takes quite a long time before we have to change the fluid but then were not being watches necessarily every single day either. Then there's people like me that are cleaning a vintage pocket watches and the other watchmaker who can be cleaning a Rolex watch so you probably clean a dozen Rolex watches to one of my pocket watches. Or maybe two dozen Rolex watches versus one pocket watch depends on how bad the watches though so unfortunately there may not be a magical when it should be done because even when the fluid itself looks dirty it may still be able to clean as long as the rinse can reduce the concentration of debris from the cleaner down to nothing. I guess basically when your watch doesn't look clean you should start changing fluids which is basically what we do it ignore the counter on the machine

Those aren't difficult either with the proper technique. Put the back-side of the spring in first with the aid of a small piece of Rodico and keep it in place (pull the back of the spring firm into its seat) with a sharp pointed peg-wood and while holding, close the legs, one-by-one with fine-pointed tweezers. Sometimes these spring do already have a slight curve and if they do, make sure that the curve is at the bottom, that helps with closing the legs. Bit hard to explain, but I do hope that you understand