Jump to content

Goliath Balance Problems.


Geo

Recommended Posts

I came across these pictures of what turned out to be my trickiest job.........ever!

The watch is a Goliath pocket watch and the problems were:-

Staff broken at one end.

Hairspring distorted and contaminated with super glue.

Being a Goliath, I thought the staff might just be large enough to allow me to make a repair by re-pivoting, after all the shaft was 1mm diameter. So decision made, I dug out my watchmakers lathe, some pivot steel and a 0.5mm carbide drill. It was more than fiddly to make, but I did succeed on my second attempt.

The first thing I did was to strip down the balance wheel and leave the hairspring soaking in acetone to dissolve the superglue that was binding the spring. I then mounted the wheel complete with staff still attached into the lathe and bored out the end of the shaft. It was a bit like mating hedgehogs! That done I turned down a piece of hard pivot steel using a carbide tool before polishing and fitting to the jewel. I decided to turn the steel when in the hard state to save me the bother of softening it and then having to harden and temper it.

The new pinion was then fitted to the staff. To ensure correct alignment, the staff was held in the headstock of the lathe and the new pinion in the tail stock. I applied a tiny drop of Loctite 386 high strength retaining compound to the hole in the staff then slid the pinion into the hole by sliding the tail stock along the lathe bed. When cured the pinion was rock solid and in perfect alignment.

Now I turned my at tensions to the hairspring. The acetone had done the trick, the spring was now perfectly clean. I pushed and pulled, prodded and twisted and eventually managed to get the spring back in shape.

I now fitted the spring to the staff in its original position and fitted the assembly to the balance cock. This assembly was then fitted back into the movement, and started to tick away quite nicely. After minor adjustment, it is holding about eight seconds a day.

Here are few pictures, the last picture shows the watch running, hence the blurred balance wheel.

post-124-0-59098400-1410862735_thumb.jpg

post-124-0-63347800-1410862772_thumb.jpg

post-124-0-01632400-1410862830_thumb.jpg

post-124-0-83778500-1410862865_thumb.jpg

post-124-0-19071200-1410862905_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in the wrong forum! I thought we were bragging about striping and cleaning and putting back a basic simple watch...

 

 

...chronographs, moon phase, and now staff rebuilding... oh come on!  I QUIT!

 

:)

B

p.s. I'll just stick to reading and asking stupid questions!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in the wrong forum! I thought we were bragging about striping and cleaning and putting back a basic simple watch...

 

 

...chronographs, moon phase, and now staff rebuilding... oh come on!  I QUIT!

 

:)

B

p.s. I'll just stick to reading and asking stupid questions!

 

No you won't - this forum is for all levels.

I demand that you contribute whatever you like (in the context of Horology) :D

 

Well done George - cracking job mate!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't saying you were bragging, Geo, sorry for misunderstanding. I was referring to me - "I thought we were bragging about striping and cleaning and putting back a basic simple watch". (a little self irony)

 

We are learning to fish, and you are hunting whales.

 

And of course I was kidding. Of course I will spam you with obvious beginner stuff...

Edited by matabog
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to also work on lathes and broaches and washing machines, but I am still talking about a hobby with limited time (10pm - 3am), funds and a very, very small WAF (WAF is the international unit measure for Wife Acceptance Factor)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very impressive and inspiring. Thanks for sharing. One thing I like about this hobby is that there are so many levels to it. Some may just like to mod watches with new hands and dials, some want to learn to service their own watches and some to make and repair parts. There's a lot of enjoyment to be had at every level.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • As long as you don't grind the stuff up and blow it around, you should be fine. Use a dust mask if in doubt.   The things I'm very careful of are: Radium lume - even the stuff that is visually completely dead and inert is still highly radioactive; it's the fluorescent part that decays, not the radium. A single speck inhaled or ingested can cause cancer, so store parts in zip bags and wear a dust mask & wipe your work area down after handling anything that uses it. A proper geiger counter is a good investment if you plan on working with vintage watches, so you can check for it & take appropriate precautions.   "One dip" & equivalents - the original type & the generic PERC dry cleaning fluid (Tetrachloroethylene / perchloroethylene) which is what the original one dip was mostly made of. That's toxic, a known carcinogen. Use in very good ventilation only & keep it sealed whenever possible.   The newer B-Dip is presumably a safer replacement.  
    • Only 137% !  sounds like you're not putting enough effort in 😆.  I would think of it like cogs on pushbike.  Fastest speed to the spindle would be largest pulley wheel on the drive and smallest pulley wheel on the driven. If the motor was into a sliding bed you would have 3x4 ? Speeds.
    • So please we have that comment.    Eccentric59.  Great work.
    • Thanks @nevenbekriev. I did some further reading and I think I kinda understand it now. Basically, if you were to fully fill the entire barrel with a super-long mainspring, you can't actually wind it anymore. Hence zero power reserve. Likewise the other extreme (mainspring too short to be wound around the arbor). This explains in very basic turns why there is a sweet spot in the middle of the curve you drew. Importantly, this is relative to the barrel diameter (and arbor diameter). In other words, if you have a larger barrel you should have a longer mainspring and hence also longer power reserve. So Longines' statement isn't entirely wrong (longer mainspring = more power reserve). BUT you can only make the mainspring longer if you also increase the barrel diameter. Thanks again for making me think about this a bit more and learning something. That's why I love this forum!   However 😉, there is still some truth to what I said (I think! Please correct me if I'm wrong!): according to my reading, the key parameter is the share of the space between barrel arbor and barrel wall. Half of which should be occupied by the mainspring (based on Theory of Horology by WOSTEP, quote in depth here: https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/mainsprings.php).  The space occupied by the mainspring in the barrel is a simple function of mainspring length AND thickness.  This implies that increasing length, but keeping the same thickness, will lead to occupying too much of the barrel space and hence reducing power reserve. This is what @nevenbekriev 's drawing correctly shows. However, if you increase length AND decrease thickness in the correct ratio, you can maintain the correct mainspring proportion vis-a-vis the barrel (i.e. occupying half of the space between arbor and barrel wall).  This would indeed lead to an increase of the number of barrel revolutions (when unwinding) and hence a potential increase in power reserve. However, you loose torque. And a loss of torque will also lead to the watch stopping earlier (when torque can't overcome the friction in the gear train). Thus, these two opposing effects may cancel each other out. Which again makes this statement probably true:    FINALLY, we still want to help @Zendoc with his very concrete decision:  GR4485 (same thickness but shorter than original) or GR4477 (slightly thinner and a bit longer than original).  I would still advocate (considering modern lubricants and potentially stronger metal alloys -- and consequently the risk of knocking at full wind) to choose the latter.        
    • 🤔 I'd say it's more like.
×
×
  • Create New...