Any and all thoughts on Cuervo Y Sobrinos watches...

[ricardopalamino]

Aloha All , 

 I was pursuing the internet looking at watch related offerings . I came across a Cuervo Y Sobrinos  chronograph that caught my fancy and ALMOST made a bid on it .  But then I tried to get more info about the company and their watches , but didn't really get any useful info . Why do they put there name and dial on so many other established watch brands . Do they just get somebody else watches and make a dial for it ?

I'm interested in any comments on these watches , but not so interested in getting one now . 

I've attached a link to the watch I was looking at.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CUERVO-Y-SOBRINOS-LARGE-36MM-CHRONOGRAPH-MIRROR-NUMBERS-DIAL-SERVICED/372089183215?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D46674%26meid%3Df7dfa2ad9551432f9bcf0ed8489ea34e%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D122714956155&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

Thanks , Louis

[wls1971]

Cuervo Y Sobrinos translates as Cuervo and Nephews and as the name suggests was a family run jewellers in Havana cuba established in 1882, The watches they sold where private label watches so makers such as Longines, Vacheron and Rolex produced watches for them under the Cuervo name.

The watches have become very popular among collectors and fakers, the watch you where looking at looks suspect to me the engraving on the back looks like laser etching to me its just not deep enough to be engraving by conventional means and does not look original to the watch.  And the engraving of the name on the movement is again very much like laser etching its just too shallow and does not look of the quality you would expect it to be engraved. It is very tempting for fakers to buy cheap Landeron based chronographs and alter them to add value and cash in on the name I would say that most of what you see on ebay are fake and franken and best avoided.

Edited September 30, 2017 by wls1971

[ricardopalamino]

Very Interesting points and observation wis1971 .

[Thinksam]

Ricardo,

I have been fascinated with the CyS brand and design of their watches and too had some skepticism. It wasn't until I visited their museum in Havana that I realized just how special their time pieces were to me. Really, it's highly personal, however the history of the family and the design of their time pieces truly stand out from others. 

I say find the piece that speaks to you and purchase it new. I was also tempted to purchase a second hand vintage and opted not to because of all the reasons WLS stated. 

I assure you that the experience and the quality is unparallel - I treat my CyS with more care than my Cartier or Mont Blanc. And it's also nice to know you may never meet another person with the same watch on the street. Here is mine. Cheers.

[ricardopalamino]

9 hours ago, Thinksam said:

Ricardo,

I have been fascinated with the CyS brand and design of their watches and too had some skepticism. It wasn't until I visited their museum in Havana that I realized just how special their time pieces were to me. Really, it's highly personal, however the history of the family and the design of their time pieces truly stand out from others. 

I say find the piece that speaks to you and purchase it new. I was also tempted to purchase a second hand vintage and opted not to because of all the reasons WLS stated. 

I assure you that the experience and the quality is unparallel - I treat my CyS with more care than my Cartier or Mont Blanc. And it's also nice to know you may never meet another person with the same watch on the street. Here is mine. Cheers.

 

Thank You Thinksam for your input and contribution on this subject . That is an interesting looking watch you have chosen . 

What are the movement specs ? Did you find most of there watch dials to be decorated with their name brand ?

Thanks , Louis

[Thinksam]

Hi Louis,

You are very welcome. Yes, I know this particular style choice is a bit on the edge; I 'dated' this one and a handful of others before pulling the trigger, teetering between 'I love it' and 'meh it's a little weird'. At the end of the day I personally really loved the uniqueness of the "Splendid Mystery" as this particular one is known (Esplendidos Misterio). It's also amusing to me that few people would know how to tell time on it. I happen to also enjoy classic cars and the more difficult to drive, the better, so it figures I would want a watch like this.

This one has an automatic movement and I believe most of their modern watches do as well. Many of their other watches come with an open back and the automatic movement is really quite beautiful. Mine does not have an open back but instead an engraving of the original CyS safe, which sits in the showroom floor of the Havana museum. I liked that because I had seen it in person, otherwise I would have preferred one with an open back.

I do think most of their watches have a design element or logo that tells you it's a Cuervo, some more than others. Perhaps your starting point is deciding the shape of watch that you prefer: round and thin (Historiador line), round and robust (Robusto line), or rectangular (Esplendidos line or Prominent line). There's something beautiful in every line, but for me, all of my other watches are round; CyS is the only designer with a rectangular art deco style case that really appealed to me in a different way, which is why I went with the choice I did.

Anyway I could write about these things ad nauseum so I'll stop here but if you have any other questions, I'm happy to help.

Sam

 

PS: in case you're curious, this was the runner up to my choice. In fact, it was my first choice until I suddenly changed my mind at the last minute. Again, the unique time telling feature and the design reminiscent of a Cuban cigar label is what appealed to me. (picture taken from internet, I do not own this one).

 

[noirrac1j]

On 9/30/2017 at 2:55 AM, wls1971 said:

Cuervo Y Sobrinos translates as Cuervo and Nephews and as the name suggests was a family run jewellers in Havana cuba established in 1882, The watches they sold where private label watches so makers such as Longines, Vacheron and Rolex produced watches for them under the Cuervo name.

The watches have become very popular among collectors and fakers, the watch you where looking at looks suspect to me the engraving on the back looks like laser etching to me its just not deep enough to be engraving by conventional means and does not look original to the watch.  And the engraving of the name on the movement is again very much like laser etching its just too shallow and does not look of the quality you would expect it to be engraved. It is very tempting for fakers to buy cheap Landeron based chronographs and alter them to add value and cash in on the name I would say that most of what you see on ebay are fake and franken and best avoided.

No, its a real Cuervo Y Sobrino but its had extensive work done: refinished dial and case, at least one sub dial hand has been replaced. The movement stampings and the caseback are what I've seen before.

J

[noirrac1j]

Worked on this oldie not too long ago. Back in the day, the movements weren't always marked with their branding but the dials certainly were. This one is verified to be genuine, but to someone that has only observed the newer ones, it won't have the "proper" hallmarks.

J

Edited February 9, 2018 by noirrac1j

[wls1971]

3 hours ago, noirrac1j said:

No, its a real Cuervo Y Sobrino but its had extensive work done: refinished dial and case, at least one sub dial hand has been replaced. The movement stampings and the caseback are what I've seen before.

J

I wouldnt attribute any authenticity to that watch at all the dial is an obvious redial so any name can be put on the watch at that stage the case back etching is obvious laser etching it has blackened the metal where it is applied and is neither stamped or engraved, but the biggest give away is the other watches the seller is selling on ebay all take the same form all redialed all case etchings on the innner covers are black and obvious etching, the movements have had obvious work and the movement marking just do not look right they range from off centre to down right wrong for the watches they claim to be .

I attribute nothing to the fact the seller has 100% feedback, the gullible are easily deceived and obviously have more money than sense.

[noirrac1j]

1 hour ago, wls1971 said:

I wouldnt attribute any authenticity to that watch at all the dial is an obvious redial so any name can be put on the watch at that stage the case back etching is obvious laser etching it has blackened the metal where it is applied and is neither stamped or engraved, but the biggest give away is the other watches the seller is selling on ebay all take the same form all redialed all case etchings on the innner covers are black and obvious etching, the movements have had obvious work and the movement marking just do not look right they range from off centre to down right wrong for the watches they claim to be .

I attribute nothing to the fact the seller has 100% feedback, the gullible are easily deceived and obviously have more money than sense.

Oh OK. You must be the expert.

J

[wls1971]

Just now, noirrac1j said:

Oh OK. You must be the expert.

Dont have to be this seller can be summed up with one watch he sold recently do you have to be expert to know this is very wrong ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HEUER-LEONIDAS-S-A-TRIPLE-DATE-CALENDAR-34-8MM-CASE-VALJOUX-90-SERVICED/202117124058?hash=item2f0f1e8fda:g:whYAAOSwg8taA99h

Nothing he is selling is what it seems, I have been collecting watches for over 30 years in that time money has entered and things that used to very cheap are now fetching silly money, scammers will take any old watch and try and add value.

[noirrac1j]

Now THAT Leonidas you shared the link to isn't legit and I don't know the seller, but I can see he has many watches that are indeed what they are being advertise as. My philosophy is: If you like it, then buy it. Collecting watches has to do with intrinsic value, condition and also evocation of emotions. That's all I have to say as this conversation is beyond the scope of this section.

J

Edited February 9, 2018 by noirrac1j

[wls1971]

26 minutes ago, noirrac1j said:

but I can see he has many watches that are indeed what they are being advertise as

They are not out of 59 sold I can see 2 longines and a Omega that look legit everything else has been altered and it can be seen from ground down bridges that have had original marking removed and replaced case backs that have been polished down, redials,laser etching I would not single this seller out Ebay is full of them and the sooner people acquaint themselves to such fakery the better.

Thats my final word ! 

[ricardopalamino]

Thank You Thinksam , Joe , and wis1971 for your inputs .

 

Also , Thanks Thinksam for sharing your style preferences . You seem to recognize what floats your boat in style and appeal . As Joe stated , " If you like it, then buy it. Collecting watches has to do with intrinsic value, condition and also evocation of emotions . "

Not all collectors are  purists as can be seen in the pleasure they get in modding watches . While there are watches in my collection that I want to be purely original , I also have some that I have replaced the dials , hands and crystals in to give them a newer aesthetic look when I wear them . Some Seiko divers for example .

[noirrac1j]

2 hours ago, ricardopalamino said:

Thank You Thinksam , Joe , and wis1971 for your inputs .

 

Also , Thanks Thinksam for sharing your style preferences . You seem to recognize what floats your boat in style and appeal . As Joe stated , " If you like it, then buy it. Collecting watches has to do with intrinsic value, condition and also evocation of emotions . "

Not all collectors are  purists as can be seen in the pleasure they get in modding watches . While there are watches in my collection that I want to be purely original , I also have some that I have replaced the dials , hands and crystals in to give them a newer aesthetic look when I wear them . Some Seiko divers for example .

@ricardopalamino@wls1971@Thinksam 

Thanks ricardo. I 've seen you post many nice looking classics and a few unconventional types as well. Seiko divers are a really great example of heavily modified watches---the modifications don't take away from the fact that they may not be factory original, but they are still Seikos--and some look fantastic with the mods. Always enjoy seeing new things. 

Regarding CyS, I have a Prominente Doble Tiempo genuine movement that needs a case. It has two little ETA 2678 movements and looks unused. It runs great and I have everything except the case. I would appreciate if you, @Thinksam or @wls1971 keep an eye out for one. 

J

Edited February 10, 2018 by noirrac1j

[ricardopalamino]

Ohh , That's a challenge ,...but I will keep an eye peeled . I know that Mark just put out a video on making your own watch and he featured generic cases .

[noirrac1j]

2 minutes ago, ricardopalamino said:

Ohh , That's a challenge ,...but I will keep an eye peeled . I know that Mark just put out a video on making your own watch and he featured generic cases .

Yeah the generic cases are available for standard movements like Unitas 6497 and valjoux 7750. This watch(es) will require a specific case. I've looked into making one using 3-D printing but the price was prohibitive. I might just carve one outta wood or something....;)

J