Removing a Suspension Spring from a wheel F/S setting

[Folkvisor]

The suspension spring seems to be 'locked' into the wheel-type F/S adjustment assembly on the clock. Also, the screw holding the assembly is very tight so I don't want to mess with it until I get all the wheels off.

Is there a way of spreading the groove holding the top of the suspension spring? I think a movement opener would get in there but I don't want to break anything.

No wonder that guy didn't want to fix this thing. ;-)

[altaka]

There are a few types of adjusters, could you post a couple of closeup pictures so the advice matches your situation?

Al

[Folkvisor]

[Folkvisor]

I'm just wondering if the pendulum has to be detached from the spring so it can be lifted out of the top guide of the adjuster.

[altaka]

Oh My have you got some work ahead of you.

The adjuster is easy, take off the Verge/Anchor, should slide right off.

Adjust the adjuster so it uncovers the one screw underneath the threaded rod.

Its off.

The adjuster can be cleaned assembled, just check for cracks in the spring.

I see the verge has grooves which need to be stoned and polished out.

And lots of bushings, oh boy, this is where the fun starts.

[Folkvisor]

I got it out. I had to take the guide out with the suspension spring attached. I'm going to clean the parts. They are very dirty.

[Folkvisor]

Yeah, fun! The clock was made in May of 1904 and I doubt anything has been done to it in 113 years.

The screw holding the adjuster to the plate was very tight. WD40 did wonders on it.

[clockboy]

Agree with "altar' you have a whole bunch of work there. Looking at your pics the bushings certainly look suspect. I would give every part a real good clean & then inspect. A interesting project for sure keep us informed of your progress.

 

[oldhippy]

If you stone the pallets be very careful as this will alter the depth of the escapement and its action, it could even stop the clock or cause it to trip, (escape more than one tooth at a time) also be careful with the escape wheel and its teeth, check for any bure on the end of the teeth. You need to check the action first be for altering anything. If the action is good and this being your first attempt you could leave it alone. The steel used in these clocks on pallets is quite hard, not so on the rest of the steel work. The holes are meant to be a bit larger than the pivots in these movements as the wheels have what are called lantern pinons, they work better if a bit loose, clean the clock first then check the holes and pivots for wear.  Don't be to quick in stoning, study the escapement first. 

[clockboy]

I agree in my early days of clock repair I honed the escape on a french clock & the B**gger would not run because I had altered the depth.  I had to find another donor movement that had a replacement.  

As a matter of interest I have always wondered if it is acceptable to move a worn/scored anchor escapement further along its shaft to the un used part. Your thoughts oldhippy.

[oldhippy]

I don't like seeing it. I know it is quite a common practice. The one in your picture shows to me what looks like solder holding the pallets in place. This is wrong and very unsightly. On high grade clock movements this should never be done.

[altaka]

Recognizing the job at hand is important to decide if it is within your comfort level. 

In Dave's case, he's dealing with a robust American movement that is overpowered and parts have a wide window of error compared to a French movement where everything needs to be dead on accurate.

He is just starting out and beginning to see the details, I doubt he will stone the verge but the groove was on the landing zone, I could not see the impulse face. In any case, bringing items to his attention is a good thing. He'll decide what is within his ability and then move on. Most failures are not catastrophic, they can be redone until everything is ticking. I was told many times that if your not making mistakes, your not learning. Courage and curiosity will get us through it.

Al T.

 

 

 

[altaka]

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

I agree in my early days of clock repair I honed the escape on a french clock & the B**gger would not run because I had altered the depth.  I had to find another donor movement that had a replacement.  

As a matter of interest I have always wondered if it is acceptable to move a worn/scored anchor escapement further along its shaft to the un used part. Your thoughts oldhippy.

Moving the anchor/verge over is the lesser of two evils. If you didn't bush the anchor or escape wheel.

If you did bush, verge to esc whl spacing may have changed, making a eccentric bushing would fix that and you might still move the verge over if your not comfortable with stoning the grooves.

Your the pilot in command so your decision is whats important. Having lots of tricks in your bag is what's important.

Al T.

[oldhippy]

The correct decision should always be made and changing the works or bodging up a repair is NOT the way to go. If you call this type of thing a trick I don't think Master craftsman in horology would be too pleased. I know I’m not.

[Tmuir]

For my education if shifting the anchor is not the 'best practice' and stoning the pallets will alter the depth what is the 'best practice'?

Stone the pallet and then reface them with a bit of main spring soft soldered in place to give the original depth again?

[oldhippy]

8 hours ago, Tmuir said:

For my education if shifting the anchor is not the 'best practice' and stoning the pallets will alter the depth what is the 'best practice'?

Stone the pallet and then reface them with a bit of main spring soft soldered in place to give the original depth again?

. You got it that is the correct practice. If done correctly, you will hardly notice that the pallets have been re-shod.

[Folkvisor]

Well, thank you for all the encouragement. 

I have a question: What is 'stoning' besides being a form of capital punishment in the Near East.

It's going to be an interesting project - that's for sure.

Good to know I have a group of people to rely on for advice.

[oldhippy]

'stoning'

A wet stone is used to remove wear from the pallets. I used an Arkansas stone with a little oil.

[Folkvisor]

There's a song about that called, "There's a Hole in the Bucket."

 

[Folkvisor]

I got some cleaning stuff. I'm going to "clean 'my' clock" - instead of your. LOL

I just made up that phrase. No one has ever used it before. ;-)

[Folkvisor]

The clock turned the fluid black almost immediately.

How long should I leave it in the mixture?

Because of the ammonia my wife want clock stuff in the basement. 

O, well...

[oldhippy]

What cleaner are you useing? Make sure all the parts are covered as some cleaning fluid will leave a tide mark and you won't remove it.

[Folkvisor]

It's totally covered. It's a mixture right now of distilled water, alcohol, ammonia and dish soap. It seems to be doing a good job because I can't see through the water any more.

I am planning on rinsing it, drying it and putting it in a wash of naphtha. 

Will this plan do a good cleaning job? I was given the recipe by a clock repair guy in Winnipeg. Probably can't trust anyone from Winnipeg. LOL

[oldhippy]

That is a really old fashioned recipe. I never thought people would still use that one. Here is a link to what most clock repairers use today.  https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/horolene-clock-concentrate

[Folkvisor]

They still use 17th century French in Quebec so I guess old clock cleaner recipes is understandable.