Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Amongst the host of disabled watches I'm sorting through there are a number faults, some of which we can deal with and many that need some serious watchmaker's input. Last time I had a balance staff made and fitted was about 20 years ago and the current cost came as a bit of a shock. In the case of WW1 era so-called "trench watches" this is going to result in most of them being scrapped as their resale value isn't much more than the balance staff replacement, even assuming there's nothing else wrong; which there usually is.

I was wondering if I could reduce the cost a bit by removing entire balance assemblies and trying to get a price for at least half a dozen at a time?  And is there anyone frequenting this forum who can offer such a service at a price which is viable for watches at the lower end of the collector market?

Roy

Posted

Roy,

If you go to a website called THE GREAT BRITISH WATCH COMPANY you can find an article by Colin Andrews about the trials and tribulations involved in making a balance staff. The short answer to your question is no. This is because the manufacturing process to make one balance staff will be the the same for each staff in a quantity of six. It the quantity was 60,000 staffs the equipment and manufacturing process would be more elaborate and expensive put the price per part would be dramatically reduced. YouTube has several old videos of the Illinois, Hamilton and Elgin watch factories. At least one of the videos shows their staff and pivot production operation. CNC machines did not exist in those days but using cam controlled screw machines they could turn a watch pivot in less than a minute. Making a quantity of one or six staffs on a watchmaker lathe takes several hours per staff.

david

  • Like 1
Posted

Making balance staffs is a long process and I personally find it very difficult. I have only successfully made one balance staff from start to finish. However I have altered balance staffs from my stock to fit but for me it in still a long trial & error process. Only a hobbyist will bother if a new one is not available as economically it does not make sense. 

  • Like 1
Posted

If you can identify the movements then there is always the possibility of sourcing replacement staffs new. There are a number of resources that are worth a look including;

http://obsoletewatchandclockparts.com/

https://www.balancestaffs.com/balancestaffs.php

etc.

as well as eBay sellers and so on.

I actually have a stock of getting on for a thousand NOS staffs that I have picked up as part of clearance job lots over the years. The only problem that I have is identifying them all as most of them are in glass numbered phials and the relevant index went missing long before I got them. Sorting them and identifying them is going to be a job for a very rainy day indeed.

  • Like 1
Posted

Hi Marc

Stage one of my rainy day (rainy year) task is to identify the movements of anything worth trying to revive. As you'd expect the other problem at the top of the list is crowns and stems. Among the pile we have at least a hundred WW1 era pieces in varying condition. I have a feeling that these are going to come up in value in years to come and in any case it's a great shame for them to end up as "steam punk" jewellery. 

I have a feeling that one route would be to take an entire batch of repairs to a SE Asian watchmaker. I bought a "California" dial bubbleback in Cambodia for £50 which was so astonishingly well made that several experienced people were reluctant to condemn it. You'd have to call it a "replica" rather than a fake. My mate has had an identical example - both came from Vietnam I believe. He's also had quite a bit of restoration well done in Pnom Penh but the watchmaker has subsequently retired and his son is fairly useless. The best watchmaker I'm aware of is a Vietnamese Chinese in London but in 20 years or so he's become very affluent and picky about what he does and his prices have risen.

Anyone else gone the overseas route?

Roy

Posted

Just a matter of coincidence in the months BHI mag there is an article by a watchmaker who is researching alternatives for parts supply.  This guy used to live and repair watches in Canada but now he lives and has a watch repair business in France. His gives an example when he needed a Omega "Speedmaster" staff. His nearest material house supplier (in France) quoted €94. When he was in Canada he used to use the "Bestfit' catalogue system to order his parts.

In the "Bestfit' catalogue it has a "Bestfit' staff system which list staffs by size & so if you know the size required to can order either as a perfect fit or some just needing a slight re-work.:

"Bestfit" only supply to material houses & not individuals & sadly do not supply to any european material houses. However they still do supply to over 50 material suppliers in the USA. So he made enquiries with "Bestfit' and he was quoted €27 for a genuine Omega part or €6 for a generic part. The postal shipping from the USA to France using International Priority First Class is $7.95. 

Three suppliers he recommends is as follows:

www.perrinwatchparts.com

www.julesborel.com

https://mccawcompany.com/watchparts.html

  • Like 1
Posted

Someone I've run across who specializes in (American) trench watch restoration is Stan Czubernat. His website is LRF Antique Watches. He's written a couple of books on Waltham and Elgin watches, and might be able to help you figure out the best direction to take with your pile of trench watches.

Good Luck!

  • Like 1
Posted

Thank you all!

This is terrifically useful information. At the moment I'm at the stage of Natural History - with luck the Science phase is to follow. I'll probably come up with more naive requests but please bear with me - I used to be fairly sharp but everything takes me a lot longer to learn these days. When it's time to start thinning out this pile there may be items of interest to those here.

Thanks again!

Roy

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Yes, the specific old tools do exist, but may be having one is not needed as they are not cheap, and also You will be able to do without it well enough. My advice will be to use regular depthing tool and adjust it for the exact distance between pallet fork and escape wheel bearings from the watch. Then remove the shellac from the pallet that now doesn't pass the ew teeth and move this pallet in. Then put the pallet fork and ew on the depthing tool and check how they lock. They should not lock when the pallet is in, but You will little by little move the pallet out and locking will appear. Then move just an idea out for reliable work and apply shellac, then check if things are still the same. You have to observe where the teeth fall on the pallets - it must be just a little below the edge between impulse and rest planes. Then You must check how everything behaves in the movement This Potence tool is so ingenious, but actually, the traditional way to do the things is much more simple. Arrange the parts not on the pillar plate, but on the cover plate. Only the central wheel will remain on the pillar plate, secured by the cannon pinion.
    • There is a tool that was made for setting up and adjusting escapements of full plate watches.  There were two styles, the picture below shows both of them.  The lower tool held a movement plate and the vertical pointed rods were adjusted to hold the unsupported pivots of the lever and escape wheel.  There was also a version of this tool that had 3 adjustable safety centres so that the balance pivot could be supported by the tool :  The other version I’m aware of is the Boynton’s Escapement Matching and Examining Tool came as a set of two or three clamps that gripped the watch plate and held the safety centres for the pivots : These do turn up on eBay from time to time.  For some escapement work, you can set up the parts in a regular depthing tool, with the centres set according to the distance between the corresponding pivot holes on the movement.  I hope this helps, Mark
    • Once you are aware of the problem, you can adjust as necessary. I have a couple of the Omega 10xx, and they are not my favourites. They seem a bit flimsy and not as solid as previous generation Omega. But I think that's true of a lot of movements from the 70-80s. For me, the 50-60s is the peak in watch movements, where the design criteria was quality, not saving the last penny.
    • Thanks for this post MikePilk, I just came across a similar problem with an Omega 1022.  The problem I had was the seconds pinion spring was bent out of shape and did not even engage with the wheel properly, so the seconds hand was not moving at all. (no power loss though :) I removed the automatic module so I could access the spring and work on it. Once I bent it back close to the right shape, I experienced the same problem you reported about power loss.  Many tweaks later, and the seconds hand is moving properly again, with amplitude back to good numbers again. Cheers
×
×
  • Create New...