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Landeron 48

harrison72

By harrison72
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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harrison72 Member

harrison72

Posted
Posted

Hi after my recent posts about dial refinishing , I started to wear the Orator watch with a Landeron 48 movement. I have a copy (from Cousins) of the Landeron 48 guide for watch repairers. Its not clear to me how to acheive the correct set up for the various eccentrics, which I was careful not to move, but in an old watch may not have been right anyway. I have attached some of the pictures to help.

 The minute recording hand sometimes moves when the start button of the chrono is pressed. This maybe caused by the hammer (8219) touching the minute heart as the hammer retracts from the reset position. I can't see how to adjust the hammer to stop it touching the heart, which it does,there is a slight wear mark on the hammer.

The repair guide also refers to the chronograph runner being blocked, not clear what that means.

When the stop button is pressed should something lock the chronograph wheel, I notice it seems quite free when stopped?

Any advice would be appreciated.

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Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted

The minute recording hand sometimes moves when the start button of the chrono is pressed.

It's a while since I worked on a 48, but I think this problem will be caused by the minute runner spring (8270) be out of adjustment. The vee shaped end of the spring should rest perfectly between the teeth when the minute counter is reset. If it is slightly out, it will cause the wheel to rotate ever so slightly when the hammer lifts.

To set the spring press the chrono reset to and make sure the hammer is down on the heart there should be very slight play on the minute wheel. Now adjust the position of the spring to ensure it rest perfectly between two teeth on the wheel, this is what keeps the minute hand at zero, not the hammer.

The reference to the the chronograph runner being blocked means that the hammer should be firmly down on the heart so that there is absolutely no movement of the chrono hand. Unlike the minute hand, it is the hammer that keeps the chrono second hand at zero.

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harrison72 Member

harrison72

Posted
  • Author
Posted

thanks for all those replies, very useful.The watch appears to be working correctly now. One thing I haden't noticed was the minute recording hand may have been dragging on the dial which left the minute runner spring (which is very weak) difficult to setup as Geo recommended. My fault, easy to overlook the obvious! Once the hand was bent up there was a chance to set things right.

The minute runner spring being on an eccentric will move in 4 directions up and down tension and forwards/backwards. Its not mentioned anywhere but I think the forward/backward adjustment can be made to get a tooth on the sliding wheel (8100) to point to the watch centre which makes the depth engagement of the dart on the chronograph runner more effective. There seems to be enough free motion on the minute recording wheel when zeroed to allow for this. The joseph book makes a nice read for us nerds, and didn't Pierre make a nice job of his watch,

once again many thanks,

  • 2 weeks later...
Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted

Took another big leap into the watch world; I bought this (none winding/running) Landeron (48) chronograph as a trainer. I managed to get from forum member Geo already a service-manual, but I like to learn more about the movement, in which housing it has been, year and how it would have looked like in its full glory (hands etc)?

Anybody seen this movement / watch before or any other info?

Would love to hear....

 

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harrison72 Member

harrison72

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Posted

Hello Endeavor,  I thought your movement might be a Landeron 47 as your minute recording jumper seems to be non adjustable. However the cut away on the balance cock shows it to be a 48, apparently some of the early 48's had the non adjustable jumper, the later one is part 8270. There was some correspondence (from the excellent Dr Ranfft in Germany) as to the differences between 48's and 47's on the watchuseek forum in 2008. I think the movement is stamped under the balance on the main plate, but I forgot to photo it. Be careful with the jumper its is easily bent and ruined, just don't ask how I know.

It looks like the driving wheel (8060) is missing as is the eccentric screw 8405 and of course the chrono pushers. You can see the parts mentioned in the drawings I sent earlier.

My Orator watch is  identifyable only by the name on the dial, yours may be harder to trace, but someone might know how to pin point the brand. The Landeron 48 movement

was made from 1937-1970, as many as 3.5 million units (per Dr R) so was very popular. Mine runs very nicely and keeps good time, the pusher at 2 o'clock starts the chrono ,the pusher at 4 o'clock stops it and another push on the same button zeros the centre secs. and recording minutes.

Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted

Thank you Harrison72 for your initial reply!

I haven't got the watch yet, it is in transit. Judging the pictures, indeed the driving wheel 8060 is missing and to me it looks like eccentric screw 8401 as well. Maybe the movement has more surprises under the hood?

No idea how hard it will become to get these parts? Are these pushers all totally different, or reasonable "standard".

Anyhow, this is just the start of what may become a very interesting project and I would love to think that I manage to get this movement back alive, cased in and get to wear it............ However, as a novice to the watch world I also have to realize that if I can't, I may have to pass it on to somebody who can.

We'll see........

Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted

Trying to study these pictures from the seller, I also noticed that there is something "funny" going on with the fixed minute recording jumper, which would be part-number 8270 on a Landeron 48, but is not interchangeable with the Landeron 47. Has anybody the part number of this fixed minute recording jumper of a Landeron 47?

Or even better, a complete exploded view / service manual of the Landeron 47?

Reading up on these movements, it seems that some parts were interchangeable between the 47 and the early "48's", which apparently mine is, and therefore early "48's" could be build up out of a mixed bag of parts of the 47 and the new 48's.

 

The good news is that I sourced a driving wheel 8060 at CousinsUK......the eccentric screw on German eBay, but excessive postage.....

A new fixed minute recording jumper seems another part I may need.......

 

Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted

Hi Geo!

Yes, I noticed; hence I mentioned eccentric screw 8401, that one seems to be missing ;) Maybe I should have written it a bit more clear :(

Don't you think that the fixed minute recording jumper does look odd? Searching, it may have part-number 8270a (?) for the Landeron 47. Not available by CousinsUK.

I'll wait till I receive the watch, strip it and then make a list of requirements........let's hope it won't be a long one...... ;)

 

 

harrison72 Member

harrison72

Posted
  • Author
Posted

sorry, confusion is my fault, I should have typed 8401 not 8405.

There are several watches with "Landeron 48" movements for sale on Ebay in the USA, some have "your"  minute recording jumper (8270a*) and some with 8270 like mine. The Landeron service book lists parts with an asterisk as not interchangeable.

Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted

Thank you ;)

You mentioned a "service book". Is there a link on the internet to it?

 

At the moment I'll wait until the watch is in and see what needs to be done / ordered. The movement was meant as a trainer for tackling an Omega 861, but as it sometimes happens, one gets carried away.........

I guess it's the love for technique and deep respect for age & beauty.............

Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted

The Landeron 48 is in ! :)

 

However, the joy was quickly dampened :(

 

The spots on the dial are corrosion, but that was a bit of a gamble as the spots were clearly visible on the pictures. What wasn't visible on the pictures was that both levers (8139 & 8340) for the pushers are sheared off. Most likely the pushers were pulled out with force.

Spring 8270a, is indeed broken. It doesn't wind, but that was in the description.

I have to see how to get both small hands off, as the are very close, if not flat on the dial. Thereafter continue to strip and see what is left of this once beautiful movement?...........perhaps it's just going to be for spares?? Hmmm........

Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm in the process of cleaning and discovered some corrosion too. The chronograph runner, or seconds wheel (8000) has corrosion and some of the teeth are eaten away. Most screws are either totally mixed up or from another movement.

There are still some parts good, like the balance+cock, pallet+cock, escape wheel, 3th & 4th wheel, some delicate springs, cannon-pinion, hour-wheel, keyless works, winding stem and most eccentric screws are present (whether they are in their right place is another matter)

Wonder, if I were to put some parts on eBay to recoup some of my money, which are the ones most valuable and most sort after? Would that be the pallet+cock and the balance+cock?

Edited by Endeavor
  • 3 years later...
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