Problem With Hampden 307 Keyless Works.

[dalarry]

hi everyone,

todd here, been away for some time due to recovery from a bad injury.

 

i am a reasonably skilled hobbyist, not a watchmaker.

currently i am working on a Hampden model 307 that is in near mint condition but won't wind.

i have the movement disassembled and everything looks good.

when i test the motion of the clutch assembly, and clutch lever with a bench key with the top plate off everything works properly.

however, when i reassemble the watch the clutch lever will not move the clutch into the winding position.

i am at a loss here.

something is obviously binding but i can't find it.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

i am attaching a pic of the clutch from my microscope that shows it is in good condition.

thanks everyone 

todd

 

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by dalarry

[WileyDave]

Hey Todd,

Don't know if this will help, but I have seen more than most Hampdens, does the backside, (under dial) look like the attachment pic? This is a 307. Reason I ask, there were some slight design changes in some of the 12s Hampdens, not that anyone would notice, but change none the less. Hope you are well.

Dave

[dalarry]

hi Dave,

you showed me yours, so i'll show you mine.

they look the same to me.

in what way would the design changes be causing my winding problem?

really appreciate your help

todd

[dalarry]

actually they don't look the same!

there are some differences in the keyless works.

[WileyDave]

That's what I meant, according to my Hampden reference book, 307's were mfg between 1917-1926, 1926 was the beginning of the end for DH in Canton so parts/plates may have been used from other models. My s/n is 3,774,961, yours is 3,749,483, roughly, 25k difference. That said, still doesn't solve your problem. Let me look into some other 12s movements with that same spring setup and get back to you. fair enough? Dave

[WileyDave]

Okay, here is what I found, which may or may not help. I took a Hampden 305 with a 3,5xx,xxx s/n, has same spring config as your 307, I put it back in case and pressed crown down to wind, pulled out to set, which it did. So, I don't doubt your abilities, these Hampden's are pretty simple. You said you were using a bench key, try it in a case. Let me know.

Dave

[dalarry]

hi Dave. let me start by saying i really appreciate the help.

i got the watch cheap because it wouldn't wind.

i only buy non runners. i like the fun of getting them going.

 

i have recased the watch numerous times to no avail.

i am pretty sure at this point it is a binding issue.

i am going to start from scratch again.

i'll let you know what happens.

i love a challenge!

 

thanks again

todd

Edited February 10, 2016 by dalarry

[WileyDave]

Hey todd,

check pic out of small lever on side of bridge, this is connected to set/wind mechanism and if out of place will not function, when you pull it out it should move spring,  just don't want to see you spend too much time on something that may be simple. As I have :o Good luck

Dave

[dalarry]

found it Dave !

i took a really close look at the top plate and realized the crown wheel screw was protruding down into the channel that the clutch assembly rides in.

I had never examined the top plate with the crown wheel in place before!

so i reassembled the movement, put it back in the case, and backed the crown wheel screw out 1/8 of a turn and the clutch went right into winding position.

if i tighten the screw the keyless stops working again.

the screw is a little long.

i have never heard of this before, but i am new.

tomorrow i will take a little off the screw, and will let you know what happens.

attaching a pic.

if i am about to make a huge mistake cleaning up the tip of the screw let me know!

 

[dalarry]

P.S.

i apologize if some of my nomenclature or grammar is not correct as i am french canadian.

english is my second language.

[WileyDave]

GOOD JOB! Who would have known?!?! Your nomenclature is close enough to understand, you could take down screw enough for clearance or find shorter screw, don't know where you got this mvt, at some point someone replaced it, but that could not have "fixed" the watch. Screws are the first thing I look at when purchasing used, if there are a bunch of marks or scratches around them, or numerous watch repair case "scratchings" its a good sign that something's not right. One thing about Hampden's, all the parts = plates, bridges, even balance wheels are numbered to match s/n. Sorry I could not help more but without seeing in front of me, I was just guessing.

Cheers, Dave

[dalarry]

you were a great help Dave.

i was getting frustrated and your encouragement kept me going.

this was an e-pray watch.

case, crystal and dial in great condition.

movement is beautiful, it just doesn't work!

all the screws were loose when i got it.

it has balance problems too.

once i finish with the keyless i will be tackling that.

i only spend about one hour a day on my watches. anymore than that and it stops being fun.

thanks again,

todd

[syfre]

May be you have swap a screw during reassembly; it's common with pocket watches to have one screw lower than others, for example with bridge screws,  for avoiding touching something on the other side.

[dalarry]

in this case it is not possible, the problem was with the reverse thread crown wheel screw.

only screw of this type in the watch.

i filed the tip of the screw down just a touch and now the keyless works are operating perfectly.

 

thanks

todd