Pcket watch "Art déco"?

[BlueHarp]

Hi all of you,

I've just received a pocket watch without any brand name wich looks quite old, and the only information I could see on the movement is 7020. I haven't disassembled it yet, and I must admit I am a bit reluctant to do it as it seems old (but it works well).

Could anyone help me? Here are some photos.

 

[mikepilk]

Lovely dial. 15 jewels and Breguet overcoil on the hairspring. Have you got a pic showing all the movement, i.e. looking from the crown?

I've no idea what the movement is, it will be easier to ID once out of the case and measured.

[RichardHarris123]

Might be able to identify it once the diameter is given and a photo of the keyless works but no guarantee. 

Ancre-----Lever escapement
Levees visibles---visible (jeweled)pallets
Double Plateau-----double roller
Spirale Breguet--Overcoil hairspring
Balancier compense----Compensated balance wheel
15 rubis---15jewels

[BlueHarp]

@mikepilkThank you for your reply. Here is another picture.

[mikepilk]

Looks to be in good condition, and fairly modern.  I've never seen a bent regulator arm like that. Also the click is in an odd position. Should make identifying easier.

I found a comment suggesting that Cortebert are known for curved regulators

Edited May 6 by mikepilk

[nevenbekriev]

Invar and Vertrx are known for curved regulators.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, BlueHarp said:

@mikepilkThank you for your reply. Here is another picture.

This is more complex than a standard pocket watch owing to fact it has 2 driving springs. A mainspring and a smaller spring that acts directly on the escapement. This direct spring provides a more constant torque helping to maintain isochronism and doesn't suffer the energy differences that a mainspring does delivering power through the gear train. The mainspring keeps the escapement driving spring wound up.

5 hours ago, BlueHarp said:

Hi all of you,

I've just received a pocket watch without any brand name wich looks quite old, and the only information I could see on the movement is 7020. I haven't disassembled it yet, and I must admit I am a bit reluctant to do it as it seems old (but it works well).

Could anyone help me? Here are some photos.

 

I have one very similar to this, i wouldn't disassemble it until you are ready to. 

[BlueHarp]

@Neverenoughwatches Many thanks for your remarks. As I wrote earlier, I was a bit reluctant to disassemble this movement, and you gave me further motives to be careful. I'll just remove it from its case so as to clean it a little.

[nevenbekriev]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

This is more complex than a standard pocket watch owing to fact it has 2 driving springs. A mainspring and a smaller spring that acts directly on the escapement. This direct spring provides a more constant torque helping to maintain isochronism and doesn't suffer the energy differences that a mainspring does delivering power through the gear train. The mainspring keeps the escapement driving spring wound up.

Rich, this one seems rather regular movement to me. Yes, what You describe exists, but I doubt that the one on the picture is something similar.

[mikepilk]

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

This is more complex than a standard pocket watch owing to fact it has 2 driving springs. A mainspring and a smaller spring that acts directly on the escapement. This direct spring provides a more constant torque helping to maintain isochronism and doesn't suffer the energy differences that a mainspring does delivering power through the gear train. The mainspring keeps the escapement driving spring wound up.

I have one very similar to this, i wouldn't disassemble it until you are ready to. 

I'm with @nevenbekriev Rich, it just looks a normal movement to me .... unless you know differently.

Do you have pics of yours? Who is the manufacturer? 

[BlueHarp]

It seems this topic is becoming very interesting . Here are two more pictures that might help to identify the movement.

The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm.

[oldhippy]

Looks as if some screws have been replaced. The regulator is curved not bent. Look in the BestFit Catalogues on here that I posted ages ago for the I D.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

I'm with @nevenbekriev Rich, it just looks a normal movement to me .... unless you know differently.

Do you have pics of yours? Who is the manufacturer? 

I thought i read Remontoire inside the case ?

[RichardHarris123]

16 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I just broke my Rule #1 - Do not buy a watch unless you can see a good pic of the movement.

I currently don't have anything to work on (itchy fingers) and as I just got this for £20 from ebay, (sold as "working"), I thought it was worth the gamble.

I liked the look of it, It has 21 jewels, so I'm assuming automatic. The back says "Incabloc" and "waterproof", so it looks to be reasonable quality. The case looks good.

From the little I've found on google, the Credos Lugran company was formed in 1954., and bought by Bucherer in the 60s. This looks 50s-60s to me. There's a reference to using good quality ETA movements. I hope so. 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I thought i read Remontoire inside the case ?

If it has a e on the end, Remontoire then yes two springs, without the e, stem wound.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

 

If it has a e on the end, Remontoire then yes two springs, without the e, stem wound.

Ah i didn't notice that but it was past one i  the morning when read it 

1 hour ago, BlueHarp said:

It seems this topic is becoming very interesting . Here are two more pictures that might help to identify the movement.

The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm.

The keyless works used for identification are hidden under the watchmakers side. You would have to disassemble it, you dont need to worry so much about that, doubtful it is a Remontoire as i suggested earlier this morning but you never know

[Michael1962]

I recall a video on YT from Steffen Pahlow where he talks about getting himself a Chronometre (for which he paid more than he would have liked), but in his words "I had to. It is a Chronometre."

I am wondering if you have more watch there than what you are aware of? Especially with what @Neverenoughwatches mentioned about two springs.

[RichardHarris123]

I'm not convinced it is a chronometer, just because it says so on the dial.  I think the two springs was a misunderstanding. 

[BlueHarp]

That's true. It is not a chronometer. As a matter of fact, I got it with another timepiece which is e real one, and only that (not a watch).

I add a few pictures of my Chronometer / watch. no indication of a brand ...

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I'm not convinced it is a chronometer, just because it says so on the dial.  I think the two springs was a misunderstanding. 

The chronometer on the dial might just be a brand name, looking back yes i was mislead by the mention of Remontoir inside the case. Still not sure why it says Ancre Remontoir which translates to anchor winder, i imagine that means lever winder which still suggests to me 2 winding springs. I'm sure i have that same watch with chronometer on the dial ,I've never ventured inside it. My missus looks after 90% of my watches , so i will get hold of that one and have a look inside.

15 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

That's true. It is not a chronometer. As a matter of fact, I got it with another timepiece which is e real one, and only that (not a watch).

I add a few pictures of my Chronometer / watch. no indication of a brand ...

Haha no not a remontoire, looks very basic.  Good to see the keyless works, can you measure the plate size to cut down on the search for them.

1 hour ago, BlueHarp said:

That's true. It is not a chronometer. As a matter of fact, I got it with another timepiece which is e real one, and only that (not a watch).

I add a few pictures of my Chronometer / watch. no indication of a brand ...

Can you lay out that brass bridge cover as well please next to the other 3 pieces.

[BlueHarp]

The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm.

Here is another picture

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm.

Here is another picture

Ok thanks  it was just the brass cover next to the previous 3 keyless parts. Normally i wouldn't have expected that to be used to identify,  but I've searched American,  German and French part catalogs and coming up with nothing for the set lever,set spring and  yoke. I will have another look later today.

34 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm.

Here is another picture

There is another way but you would have to measure the stem very accurately. 

[BlueHarp]

Ok. >Here is the picture

[Neverenoughwatches]

35 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

Ok. >Here is the picture

Its ok blueharp the pictures you provided earlier of the 3 keyless components,  the setting lever, the setting lever spring and the yoke plus the brass cover plate should be enough. If they are not listed anywhere then you are relying on any lettering on the movement or someone that just knows the movement from experience. 

[BlueHarp]

I've started trying to use the Betfit, but I don't know which measurement I must take for the caliber. The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm .

[mikepilk]

22 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

I've started trying to use the Betfit, but I don't know which measurement I must take for the caliber. The diameter of the dial side is 40mm, and the other side 36,5mm .

Here's a size chart. 40mm is about 17¾L. I looked in Bestfit but couldn't find anything close.