Strange stuff

[Waggy]

Snagged a job lot of tools, and more than a few mysteries. First is a tin of what looks like chopped up cork, and the second is a jar of white powder. Any ideas?

Is it old shellac?

OK no idea what this is, it doesn't react to UV, and is very fine powder

The below is for shellac application but what specifically?

lots more to follow!

[RichardHarris123]

The white powder is cocaine, for when a repair is stressing you out.  Hehe.  As for the rest, no idea. 

[rehajm]

White powder I don’t know- radium lume?

The first bit of kit looks like the chips and wand for bluing screws and hands and such. what hold and control the heat perhaps…wand for holding over the flame

How about borax flux for the powder?

Edited November 29, 2023 by rehajm

[Marc]

My guesses..

1. wood chips for drying parts in after the final rinse. A bit of an archaic practice these days.

2. could be French chalk for brushing cleaned clock plates with....  or maybe diamantine powder for polishing.... could also be oilstone powder, also for polishing, although the stuff that I have got is slightly greyish.

3. Blueing pan. Fill it with brass chips, place item to be blued on the chips and hold the pan over a spirit burner.

4. & 5. Pallet warmer for softening the shellac in order to adjust the pallet stones.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Marc
additional info

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

Snagged a job lot of tools, and more than a few mysteries. First is a tin of what looks like chopped up cork, and the second is a jar of white powder. Any ideas?

Is it old shellac?

OK no idea what this is, it doesn't react to UV, and is very fine powder

The below is for shellac application but what specifically?

lots more to follow!

Just be careful with that white powder, no laying it out in straight lines. Diamantine powder ? Talc for brass ? Dab a bit on some sensitive bits after you've had a shower.

[oldhippy]

If its cork that is used for drying. White power I would say diamantine powder, french chalk is normally in a block. 

[rehajm]

An alternative theory on the white stuff- If you’ve ever observed hand enameling the fine powder looks exactly like that, container and all…

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, Waggy said:

Snagged a job lot of tools, and more than a few mysteries. First is a tin of what looks like chopped up cork, and the second is a jar of white powder. Any ideas?

Is it old shellac?

OK no idea what this is, it doesn't react to UV, and is very fine powder

The below is for shellac application but what specifically?

lots more to follow!

Add a drop of oil to a small amount of the powder, mix to a paste, see if it will polish the handle of a pair of tweezers. 

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The white powder is cocaine, for when a repair is stressing you out.  Hehe.  As for the rest, no idea

It's something you mix into your lubrication it helps to lubricate things much better. Just let me know how shiny the pivots look after a few years

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

White power I would say diamantine powder

A classic polishing compound usually came in several grit sizes if you would call it that they all look like white powder. Typically would be mixed with some oil used to polish your pivots. Not used anymore other than a novelty in your bench.

13 hours ago, Marc said:

1. wood chips for drying parts in after the final rinse. A bit of an archaic practice these days.

Even in my day the only time people are using wood chips were well in school at least one of the schools the rumor was if you didn't do things right it would go into the sawdust box. Then you get to start over again.  That would also explain why there are holes in the lid of the can to allow the vapors of the solvent-based products to eventually escape. 

 

[Waggy]

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction to understand how to use the below, thanks.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Waggy said:

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction to understand how to use the below, thanks.

They also come in slightly different shapes like this one resembles the one that I use

Unfortunately I don't have a good picture of it in use so you'll have to use your imagination and hopefully word this correctly. First you turn your pallet fork upside down like in this image

Now is where you have to use your imagination. Slide the black locking ring back to release the part that holds the pallet fork in place. Grab the pallet fork in the image above movement up and drop it onto the tool. You want the pallet stones facing outward. Then when you slide the ring forward you'll see the slot on the locking part will come down onto the pallet fork arbor holding the pallet fork in place. Now you can take the alcohol amp preferred and heat up the pallet fork on each side so you can play with your shellac.

 

[Waggy]

@JohnR725 got it thanks.

16 hours ago, rehajm said:

White powder I don’t know- radium lume?

I thought about this, but doesn't react to my UV light and isn't radioactive (I have a radiation monitor) - I think the consensus is that it's some kind of polishing compound, which makes sense.

 

I'll post more crazy tools from the job lot tonight

 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Waggy said:

isn't radioactive (I have a radiation monitor)

You probably don't really want the radiation detector. Ill just cause undue stress especially if you start acquiring a vintage stuff. Somewhere but it's hiding in the attic I believe in a metal box I have an actual kit for reapplying your radium luminescence material. But then I also have some of the wax stuff that they used to sell.  used to have is really little tiny tins that had wax with the luminescence material dissolved in seed heated up and put it underneath the hand in to fill in the hand and that's what the Steelers. I was never really impressed with it. But I discovered with my Geiger counter that some of the ones I have actually have radium in their which has really surprised about because but the radium was supposed to be phased out by? On the other hand I have a whole bunch of cards that have radium hands even without the Geiger counter you can tell because if you push the hand decide you can see the burnt paper from the radium. So do I get really excited to get some military hands are dials then you monitor gets very excited

Here's what the powder we think it is it's available from cousins

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/diamantine-bergeon

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, Waggy said:

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction to understand how to use the below, thanks.

Pallet stone adjuster. Lever fits into the slot of the 2 brass wings, then a pusher to move them in and out i guess while you hold the lever ? It looks like for big pocket watch levers ? I think i would want to do the stones one at a time. The other is a handle, it attaches to a box as it is here, it enables the user to pick up the box and carry it around with the use of just one of his hands. sorry i couldnt resist, it was just begging for it .

Edited November 30, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[Waggy]

Next instalment of strange stuff:

This thing has a spring loaded collar and the which moves the 4 'teeth' back when you pull it back

From the side:

Front on:

There were also three of these things floating around:

Not sure what these are, they seem to be made of brass or similar

This seems to be steel:

This one is also steel, and has square ends (side view):

End on:

This is pointed at the bottom, maybe some kind of punch?

This one is like a very large oiler, and filed to an angle at the end:

Close up of the end

I think this is a tool for adjusting wheels back into true?

I thought this may be a screwdriver sharpener, but the angles are all wrong

[oldhippy]

The last one I would say is a graver sharpener. 

[Waggy]

Also in the box was the following:

A 4 sided movement holder (currently refurbishing)

Very old canon pinion tool - in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?

Pretty sure this is a dial foot dressing tool, again I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Also in the box was the following:

A 4 sided movement holder (currently refurbishing)

Very old canon pinion tool - in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?

Pretty sure this is a dial foot dressing tool, again I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

 

Truing and poising calipers, looks like the brass ones have the nibs missing.

10 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Also in the box was the following:

A 4 sided movement holder (currently refurbishing)

Very old canon pinion tool - in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?

Pretty sure this is a dial foot dressing tool, again I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

 

Why do you think its for trimming dial feet and not just a pin vice ?

[Waggy]

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Why do you think its for trimming dial feet and not just a pin vice ?

Could be, will try and get a better picture, maybe wishful thinking?

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Could be, will try and get a better picture, maybe wishful thinking?

I'd have thought the bottom of jaws would have a cutting edge to remove excess solder. Bergeon do make a tool for that, make a comparison, our @JohnR725 here suggests using a pin vice for the same proceedure, i seem to remember that is what he uses.  Haha you notice i hang on every word that John delivers, dont panic J I'm not a stalker

3 hours ago, Waggy said:

Next instalment of strange stuff:

This thing has a spring loaded collar and the which moves the 4 'teeth' back when you pull it back

From the side:

Front on:

There were also three of these things floating around:

Not sure what these are, they seem to be made of brass or similar

This seems to be steel:

This one is also steel, and has square ends (side view):

End on:

This is pointed at the bottom, maybe some kind of punch?

This one is like a very large oiler, and filed to an angle at the end:

Close up of the end

I think this is a tool for adjusting wheels back into true?

I thought this may be a screwdriver sharpener, but the angles are all wrong

The first pictures are adjustable mainspring winders, i have a few and quite like them. Other photos look like hand gravers for lathewoork, a graver sharpener and above that a tool used in conjunction with the truing calipers for straightening the balance wheel, the slot fits onto the rim for bending, i dont think i would use that it looks like more of a  deforming tool.

[RichardHarris123]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

I like to polish up old tools but others will disagree. 

[tomh207]

@RichardHarris123 I’m like you Richard, if we are trying to make old watches shiny and working again should we not do the same for the old tools we manage to acquire?

 

Tom

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, Waggy said:

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

All of them are considered truing calipers. Although sometimes the used for truly wheels not just the balance wheels. Just different styles of the same tool

Too many items I will just snipped out images so we can keep straight what I'm talking about or at least I can figure out where and talking about. This one is a mainspring a Winder you're missing the arbor part. I think I have some someplace I've never used them. Then if I remember right I think the arbor is double-sided you really get curious off to find a picture for you to show you the rest of it

Typically these will come in a set of three. There bench keys for winding typically American pocket watches but conceivably European pocket watches that require winding out of the case. In other words in a typical American pocket watch the case has a sleeve which holds in the stamina crown when the movements removed from the case you need a way of winding and setting.

I normally not used to seeing these exactly like these but my suspicion is these are used to push jewel settings out of watches. A lot of times when you see him like this is because somebody in a classroom situation made them versus purchasing them commercially. At least sometimes.

 

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'd have thought the bottom of jaws would have a cutting edge to remove excess solder. Bergeon do make a tool for that, make a comparison, our @JohnR725 here suggests using a pin vice for the same proceedure, i seem to remember that is what he uses.  Haha you notice i hang on every word that John delivers, dont panic J I'm not a stalker

Now I have to watch my back somebody stalking me oh dear. I do use a specific pin device for that sort of thing because I always regarded initially as a bad pin vice because the jaws were sharp. But I found the sharp jaws quite nice at reducing the diameter of things were for cleaning up things.

So yes they do make a specific tool for that purpose but I suspect in the picture of we looked at the jaws carefully it's probably just the pin vice.

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Now I have to watch my back somebody stalking me oh dear. 

Haha don't worry, I'm a very very long way away . Funny

[Waggy]

A little bit of elbow grease and here are some of the tools cleaned up

Canon pinion tool before:

And here it is after

Used some of Will Kirk's (Repair Shop) cleaning solution to clean the dirt and old varnish off the handle, then made some shellac to protect it, finally some of my home made beeswax polish. Cleaned the parts up in dish detergent, then IPA to remove any water, naphtha to remove any grease and a quick visit to the buffing machine and some Brasso, another full clean and then oil/grease and reassemble.

This is the pin vice before:

And here it is now:

Similar treatment to the pinion tool above

And here is the  brass truing and poising caliper before

And after

Didn't to too crazy with this, just some Brasso and some 3-in-1 oil on the hinge

I also worked on the 4 sided movement holder:

After I cleaned it up I found some blue paint, so thought what the heck:

Edited December 1, 2023 by Waggy