Help with mantle clock

[watchweasol]

Hi. The gear. Sat on the top of the escapement is the pendulum length adjustment of a brocot escapement. Poking through the front plate there should be an arbour with a small squared end this when turned turns the gear on the escapement top and raises or lowers the pendulum block.   If the clock is running fast then try turning this arbour and lower the pendulum.  If you have the right key it should have a large end for winding and a small end to adjust the shaft.

[oldhippy]

I think the clock is gaining too much for using that adjustment, that is used for fine adjustment like seconds in a day. 

[watchweasol]

Hi.  you are right it’s for fine tuning  but to set the coarse timing it needs to be central position before we start as once the coarse timing is set and the block is either at the top or bottom it is of little use.  We need to determine is the pendulum the correct one ie. Numbers match movement and perhaps a longer suspension spring ? And get a useful rate first.

[oldhippy]

I have already mentioned to check the pendulum and it might need a longer s/spring 

[tyl]

Will take a look.  Thx.  Much appreciated.  

[tyl]

Thank you for the replies.  I have adjusted the pendulum as long as it will go.  There seems to be no correlation between the numbers stamped on the clockworks 5433 52 and the pendulum 1092CV.  See pic.  Is there anyplace other than the back plate that could have 1092CV stamped?    I also note that it no longer chimes on the half hour - could I have done something?

The clock is reset and I will see how much time it gains tomorrow morning.

Edited August 9, 2023 by tyl
Addition

[oldhippy]

This is not the original pendulum, the numbers are always on the back plate.

[tyl]

Checked it this AM and it only gained two minutes overnight.  Fantastic.  Will keep track and report in a day or so. 

Thx for the help again.

[tyl]

Also wondering why it stopped chiming on the half hour.

Still studying the escapement.  I am now guessing that the wheel/gear on top (horizontal) raises and lowers the block which pinches the suspension spring.  Thereby effectively making the pendulum somewhat longer or shorter but by small increments - make sense?  Hence your comment about adjusting it by seconds instead of minutes.  I do not seem to have an arbor for adjusting from the front (at least from looking at my pics) and my key (which may not be original) does not invert for other sized winding.  I am guessing instead that this clock has a brass stop shown in the pics which holds that gear in place after adjustment.  Or am I overthinking this? 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by tyl

[tyl]

Any idea why it stopped chiming on the half hour?  Gaining about 5 minutes overnight which is great.  I continue to keep track.

 

Thx again for all the help.

[oldhippy]

How much power do you have on the spring? You are a little confused, it is a strike not chime. Keeping it simple 1 key hole  = Time Piece, 2 key holes = Strike, 3 key holes = Chime.

[tyl]

Good info.  Thanks.   Two key holes so this clock strikes.  It had not been wound for probably 40 years as it was completely wound up when we bought it.  For that reason I have let it run until about yesterday when I thought the strikes began to be a little slower.  I wound each side about four times, maybe five, but do not recognize any change in the speed of the strikes.  

One of the posts that I read said that overwinding a clock is just a myth.  Maybe I should wind it up more?  Earlier it was absolutely striking on the half hour.

Otherwise it is running beautifully; gains about five minutes overnight and I am ok with that for now.  I think the pendulum is lengthened as much as possible although now I remember that the top hook has a few threads and I could use that for adjustment.  

Appreciate your help.

[watchweasol]

Hi the myth regarding over wound. Clocks and watches is attributed to either dry/dirty or set mainsprings  also dirty/worn movements where pivots are worn the oil has dried up leaving a sticky residue or has attracted Dust and become a gummy paste whick if left will wear the pivot holes or the pivots or both.  They become “ overwound” as the movement is wound to capacity and won’t run because of the above problems    First thing to do with any movement “ overwound” is to let down the power so the spring relaxes. Service the movement and run the movement , you may not get the power reserve as the spring is tired and set you have little alternative other than change the spring for a new one. Being overwound is a symptom of other causes.

[oldhippy]

Its a myth as watcheasol explained. After 40 years those two spring need to be looked at. what you have said they are both doing the best they can

[tyl]

You are absolutely right about the half hour strike.  I wound both trains (?) and now it strikes on the half hour.  

Wonderful.

Thx again.

[tyl]

Now that the mantel clock is keeping good time, I have another question.  The clockface is a dark bronze and is quite hard to read even in the daytime.  How can I clean or lighten up the clockface.  I am afraid to use Brasso to clean the brass? and think it might remove the black numbers whicn are most likely just black paint.

 

Thx for your help.

[oldhippy]

Apart from going over it with cotton wool and dip it in warm water there is nothing you can do. You could have the dial restored by a dial restorer but then it might look odd against the clock case.  

Don't use Brasso as it will remove everything on that dial don't use any abrasive. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by oldhippy

[tyl]

Great advice; thanks again.

[LittleWatchShop]

  On 8/14/2023 at 12:42 PM, watchweasol said:

Hi the myth regarding over wound.

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Except for the Valjoux 726

[RichardHarris123]

  On 10/26/2023 at 8:21 PM, LittleWatchShop said:

Except for the Valjoux 726

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Can you explain? 

[LittleWatchShop]

  On 10/26/2023 at 8:44 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Can you explain? 

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Ratchet wheel will break if you wind it too hard. When you get to the end of the wind and continue torquing, you can (and I did) break the wheel. So, yes, a rare case of over winding.

Start at 1:15

here

[oldhippy]

  On 10/27/2023 at 1:32 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Ratchet wheel will break if you wind it too hard. When you get to the end of the wind and continue torquing, you can (and I did) break the wheel. So, yes, a rare case of over winding.

Start at 1:15

here

Expand  

There is no such thing as over winding. If the ratchet broke it is a fault with the ratchet. Once the spring is wound up to its full it will not wind anymore. The whole over winding thing is an old wives tail. 

[LittleWatchShop]

  On 10/27/2023 at 7:01 AM, oldhippy said:

There is no such thing as over winding. If the ratchet broke it is a fault with the ratchet. Once the spring is wound up to its full it will not wind anymore. The whole over winding thing is an old wives tail. 

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Did you watch the video I posted?

[oldhippy]

  On 10/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Did you watch the video I posted?

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Just skipped through it, its about watches. 

[LittleWatchShop]

  On 10/27/2023 at 11:56 AM, oldhippy said:

Just skipped through it, its about watches. 

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Respectfully, you are wrong. If you had watched the video at the time point I mentioned, you would understand my point. Secondly, I own this watch and I broke it by "over winding." You may say it is the fault of the rachet wheel, but I am the one who applied excessive torque. Indeed, IMHO, the design of the rachet wheel is poor--google it.

I will agree that the concept of over winding is generally a myth. As I would sit in my dad's shop day after day, people would come in with this complaint and we would chuckle under our breath.