New to hobby.

[broccolini]

Hello from the Pacific Northwest.

My great grandfather was a watchmaker, so I inherited a lot of mechanical watches from my grandmother. When I took one in to be repaired, I was told it wasn't worth the expense. So I figured I was on my own.

I've been collecting tools and practice movements and have started on a Bulova with an 11ACAC movement. I haven't had much luck finding a good tutorial about servicing the automatic module on it. I am not really sure how far to disassemble it. So I'll probably have questions about that.

I bought a large collection of parts and movements that included material for pocket watches to quartz movements. I'd also like some information about how to determine what is worth hanging on to. I don't know enough to decide. The best I can do is search for each individual thing on eBay and see how it's priced but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

 

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome from England. 

[GuyMontag]

Welcome!

I don't believe there is a tech sheet specific for the 11ACAC but I believe it is in the same family as the 10CBAC. I've attached a tech sheet on the auto mechanism for that movement.

Bulova_10CBAC_10BOAC_10BPAC_TECH_1954.pdf

[grsnovi]

Greetings! I'm also in the PNW (metro-Portland) as is JohnR who is one of our more prolific sources of help.

You may find that the easiest way to get specific parts is to find an entire "donor" movement however you still need to be careful in assuming that you can just swap parts. This is usually OK in new movements but don't try it with 100 year old pocket watches - that could be a problem.

15 minutes ago, broccolini said:

I bought a large collection of parts and movements

Just how large a pile did you get? It is likely that you'll want to hold on to all of it - at least until you get a better feel for what you may end up deciding you're going to do. Some of what you have may only be good for practice, some as donor movements and (possibly) some you may want to restore.

Have fun!

- Gary

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, broccolini said:

Pacific Northwest.

I rather like Wikipedia's description of the Pacific Northwest anywhere from the ocean to the mountains to Canada to Northern California. Although I would be curious if you could nail it down a little closer than Pacific Northwest and yes there's reasons for that like for instance if you are closer to Seattle we have Two separate schools teaching watch repair one aimed at hobbyists or people who just want to go a quarter at a time and then a school for two years. We also have a horological Association that has occasional meetings like one coming up this month well worth it if you can attend.

4 hours ago, broccolini said:

practice movements and have started on a Bulova with an 11ACAC movement. I haven't had much luck finding a good tutorial about servicing the automatic module on it. I am not really sure how far to disassemble it. So I'll probably have questions about that.

Usually best for practicing to start on a pocket watch preferably a running pocket watch preferably a disposable running a pocket watch. Disposable because things happen gremlins are lurking around them destroy your watch when you're not looking through no fault of your own. Pocket watch is it's a lot easier to see which are working on. Starting on automatic that you not even sure what to do with it is fine but better to start with a pocket watch.

4 hours ago, broccolini said:

bought a large collection of parts and movements that included material for pocket watches to quartz movements. I'd also like some information about how to determine what is worth hanging on to. I don't know enough to decide. The best I can do is search for each individual thing on eBay and see how it's priced but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

This is a tricky question. Like what is worth hanging onto? And watch repair almost everything is worth hanging onto sooner or later you may possibly need it. Typically in watch repair people hang onto everything forever and never get rid of anything ever. Which presents an interesting problem if you inherit someone else's stuff yet be careful with hearts if the package is opened it's probably a used part. This unfortunately is not just in watch repair there are a lot of places where you purchase something thinking it's new to find out the old one is in the box.

On the other hand if you have movements are good enough to be sold on eBay and you want to raise money that might be different sometimes people will fix them sort of. The definition of repaired on eBay is a rather broad term they might basically diplomat lighter fluid were there a little bit cleaner and claimed that they run for a few seconds that's running and now you can sell it is running watch movements.

It just depends a lot and what you would like to do.

http://www.norwestschoolofhorology.com/wwca/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest

 

[broccolini]

13 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I rather like Wikipedia's description of the Pacific Northwest anywhere from the ocean to the mountains to Canada to Northern California. Although I would be curious if you could nail it down a little closer than Pacific Northwest and yes there's reasons for that like for instance if you are closer to Seattle we have Two separate schools teaching watch repair one aimed at hobbyists or people who just want to go a quarter at a time and then a school for two years. We also have a horological Association that has occasional meetings like one coming up this month well worth it if you can attend.

 

 

 

I had no idea we had a watchmaking school. I am just south of Everett.

I've taken apart and reassembled a few movements already. The Bulova is the first automatic movement I tried. It just happened to one that I couldn't find any good videos of.

I have a microscope and camera so I'll be able to get it back together. There's just one plate that has a wheel on each side and they seem connected? And I wasn't sure if I should try to pull them apart. They might just be pressed together, idk. I'll take a picture.

I think some of the parts I have would be worth selling. There are some Rolex parts including two dials for 1665 'sea dweller'. And a bezel for the same watch.  I assume all the Rolex parts are worth something. And i have no interest in Rolex watches.

The quartz stuff I have no idea about. I'll go through it more thoroughly. Also all the pocket watch stuff. 

Most of the watches I've picked up are like Bulova, Elgin, Waltham.. stuff like that. 

I guess I'll just hoard everything for now. That's the nice thing about watches. They are so tiny. You can hoard so much stuff.

 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, broccolini said:

I had no idea we had a watchmaking school. I am just south of Everett.

Technically two schools North Seattle community college has a Rolex sponsored a program for slightly less than two years.

In the second school can be found here. Is also why gave you link to the horological association that meets in the school and were having a meeting the 24th of this month I believe it's open to anyone to come. The meeting that consists of beginners all the way professionals all together sharing their knowledge

http://www.norwestschoolofhorology.com/

Oh and in addition to the schools we also have in Seattle two remaining physical material houses you can walk into and do business with.

1 hour ago, broccolini said:

I think some of the parts I have would be worth selling. There are some Rolex parts including two dials for 1665 'sea dweller'. And a bezel for the same watch.  I assume all the Rolex parts are worth something. And i have no interest in Rolex watches.

 

And yes everything Rolex related is worth money especially parts and dials stuff because Rolex won't sell parts to anybody well almost anybody so everyone else has to find whatever they can find which does drive the price up.

1 hour ago, broccolini said:

I guess I'll just hoard everything for now. That's the nice thing about watches. They are so tiny. You can hoard so much stuff.

Yes it's amazing how little space properly packaged watch parts can occupy versus other hobbyists.

1 hour ago, broccolini said:

There's just one plate that has a wheel on each side and they seem connected? And I wasn't sure if I should try to pull them apart. They might just be pressed together, idk. I'll take a picture.

Pictures definitely nice in the meantime I can make a wild guess like the link below somebody is having the opposite problem they're trying to assemble something. Typically it would be a sweep wheel problem we've discussed that somewhere else before on the group how to disassemble those including the specialized tools you need because otherwise you don't want to break the wheel.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/13665-help-reassembling-a-bulova-11acac-atomatic/

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by JohnR725

[broccolini]

The brass wheel in this picture is the one that's attached to a wheel on the other side of the plate. That's what i wasn't sure I should try to take apart.

 

 

[JohnR725]

10 minutes ago, broccolini said:

That's what i wasn't sure I should try to take apart.

The problem if you leave it in place is you risk breaking the jewel and you can lubricate properly if it's in place. Then I'm not saying we discussed everything before on this group but we've discussed a lot if you can just find it

 

[oldhippy]

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum.

We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement. 

Here is a link to the correct tool you need to remove those wheels with out damaging the wheel or the pivot. 

https://www.hswalsh.com/product/watch-wheel-cannon-pinion-removing-tool-presto-bergeon-4079-3a-hh531

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, broccolini said:

bought a large collection of parts and movements that included material for pocket watches to quartz movements. I'd also like some information about how to determine what is worth hanging on to. I don't know enough to decide. The best I can do is search for each individual thing on eBay and see how it's priced but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

 

Hi broccolini, if you want to follow the ways of a true watchmakers you will hang onto all of it . Enjoy the forum.

4 hours ago, broccolini said:

The brass wheel in this picture is the one that's attached to a wheel on the other side of the plate. That's what i wasn't sure I should try to take apart.

 

 

Take your time with this wheel broc it is friction fitted onto the pivot and there is a high risk of bending the wheel, pivot or both.  OH has pointed you in the right direction for the removal tool, presto make a few similar looking tools for hand and cannon pinion removing but the required is specific to fit the five spoked wheel. Without the tool it is still possible but the key point to remember is not to prise up at the outside edge of the wheel but at the inner hub. Jon has posted a method and photos somewhere recently using pieces of a mainspring, mine was using some diy made micfo hand levers. I'll find the thread and add a link , so have a read through an interesting discussion that may help.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/26676-bent-wheels/#elControls_221683_menu

Edited June 11, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[broccolini]

Thanks, everyone.

I'll see if I can get that wheel out without breaking anything. I have hand levers and a presto style tool. I'll look at the other methods mentioned too.

I was assuming it had something to do with the automatic winding system because I hadn't seen that configuration before.

 

[oldhippy]

That wheel is to do with the sweep seconds hand. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, broccolini said:

Thanks, everyone.

I'll see if I can get that wheel out without breaking anything. I have hand levers and a presto style tool. I'll look at the other methods mentioned too.

I was assuming it had something to do with the automatic winding system because I hadn't seen that configuration before.

 

Ordinary hand levers will be too large and the presto tool is specifically designed to fit inbetween the five spokes. You really need to manufacture something for the removal. The pivot is easily bent and distortion of the drive wheel also.  You've been warned

[broccolini]

28 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ordinary hand levers will be too large and the presto tool is specifically designed to fit inbetween the five spokes. You really need to manufacture something for the removal. The pivot is easily bent and distortion of the drive wheel also.  You've been warned

This all turned out to be correct.

Here is what I came up with. I cut the ends off of an old scroll saw blade, heated them and bent them. Drilled tiny hole in the end of some bamboo skewers. Stuck the metal bits in there and polished them until they fit under the wheel. Worked great.

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 minutes ago, broccolini said:

This all turned out to be correct.

Here is what I came up with. I cut the ends off of an old scroll saw blade, heated them and bent them. Drilled tiny hole in the end of some bamboo skewers. Stuck the metal bits in there and polished them until they fit under the wheel. Worked great.

 

 

Well done brocc, a well thought out use of some available scrap items.

[broccolini]

I had to open the mainspring barrel that says 'don't open me'. Spring is broken. It's some sort of two piece system.

I assume I can just replace it with a regular automatic movement mainspring?

Also the barrel arbor seems to have too much play. I'll try to get a video of it. Maybe it's normal. idk.

Edited June 13, 2023 by broccolini

[broccolini]

I actually found the correct sealed barrel in my hoard of parts. It's NOS and the pack was unopened so it's not used.

Is it okay to use? Or would the lubricant in there just be garbage after this much time?

[JohnR725]

16 minutes ago, broccolini said:

It's NOS and the pack was unopened so it's not used.

Is it okay to use? Or would the lubricant in there just be garbage after this much time?

I'm attaching a PDF on lubrication with Omega's recommendations for such things.PDF page 6 lubrication is applied to where the arbor exits the barrel typically they use HP 1300 or if you Don't have that D5 would work

Omega 8645_WI_40_rules for lubrication cousins UK.pdf

[Neverenoughwatches]

30 minutes ago, broccolini said:

I actually found the correct sealed barrel in my hoard of parts. It's NOS and the pack was unopened so it's not used.

Is it okay to use? Or would the lubricant in there just be garbage after this much time?

If its in a sealed airtight blister pack it could well be ok, its previous storage environment will play a big part in its present condition. Rather than risk opening the sealed barrel to find out, i would be asking myself what harm could come from making just a barrel and train assembly to do a free running check. Experimentation is a part of what watchmaking is about 

[ManSkirtBrew]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:10 PM, broccolini said:

Spring is broken. It's some sort of two piece system.

I recently opened the "do not open" barrel myself on a 10BPAC movement. Well, two to be precise.

It is indeed a two piece bridle, and there was some good info about it in my thread on the service.

Good luck!

[broccolini]

Thanks, everyone.

Barrel is in and it's ticking. Just need to install the automatic bits and maybe find a nicer stem. Watch had some rust issues.