3D Main Spring Winders??? - Be Gentle

[JayPoorJay]

Hello All. 

Maybe this has been covered before and if so I apologize. Also, as I have experienced with the several automotive forums I belong to (I am not nearly as familiar with the culture here) maybe this is one of those hot button issues... like which motor oil...? If so, apologies, I don't mean to create/start a GREAT debate, I just want to know what people think. 

I was searching and I came across this item with an attached YouTube video. This seemed like a good thing BUT,,, well, you know. Thing is, I want/ need one - or will - I am sure...

What do people know, think or have experience with when it comes to a 3D Printed Resin Main Spring Winder Set? Are they,,, anything?

Edited February 24, 2023 by JayPoorJay

[GuyMontag]

I've seen posts on this forum that suggest they do a good job. However, for $250 you may also consider just purchasing the 3 or 4 Bergeon Winders that you would use the most. I purchased the sizes 5, 6 and 7 and for the watches I work on I haven't needed another size yet.

[rehajm]

Crikey at that price that’s nearly 2/3 of the way to a set of bergeons…

…and yes as suggested you can but a few individual winders in the most used sizes..

[RickTock]

I bought the small starter kit for $29.99, an extra barrel for $9.99 and the micro cutter for $5.99 from Andy. Not a big investment to prove the concept (it did the job for me on my Vostok movement). Somewhere down the line I may invest in a 3D printer if I need more barrels (and other assorted printable bits). The specs are public domain.

[JayPoorJay]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:38 PM, GuyMontag said:

I've seen posts on this forum that suggest they do a good job. However, for $250 you may also consider just purchasing the 3 or 4 Bergeon Winders that you would use the most. I purchased the sizes 5, 6 and 7 and for the watches I work on I haven't needed another size yet.

I like this idea and would appreciate any guidance in thinking about going at it this way. So, 5, 6 and 7 work best for which category of watch?

My inexperience shines. At this stage, my level of understanding, I really don't know which sizes I would need of I were to base it on, what I'll be working on. More, honestly, I've never even sized for a watch spring. 

I guess I see this as an inevitably and I would rather deal with this now before I have ANOTHER watch on my little desk. Based on what I've read I don't want to hand wind even though nothing I am working on is valuable, except as a practice tool - well, that is except this pocket watch I got for my ladies birthday - it's needing a center wheel and Dave sold me a prewound mainspring...

Help me out a little with sizes and which are most common, if you would ..?

[GuyMontag]

56 minutes ago, JayPoorJay said:

I like this idea and would appreciate any guidance in thinking about going at it this way. So, 5, 6 and 7 work best for which category of watch?

My inexperience shines. At this stage, my level of understanding, I really don't know which sizes I would need of I were to base it on, what I'll be working on. More, honestly, I've never even sized for a watch spring. 

I guess I see this as an inevitably and I would rather deal with this now before I have ANOTHER watch on my little desk. Based on what I've read I don't want to hand wind even though nothing I am working on is valuable, except as a practice tool - well, that is except this pocket watch I got for my ladies birthday - it's needing a center wheel and Dave sold me a prewound mainspring...

Help me out a little with sizes and which are most common, if you would ..?

The size of the winders needed will depend on the barrel sizes in the watches you work on. This chart shows the diameter of the part of the winder that goes into the barrel in the first column. Most of the watches I work on are in the 10 to 11.5 ligne size, which usually means I end up using the size 5 or 6 size winder. It might make sense to get them as you need them; measure the barrel inner diameter of the watch you are working on and compare to the chart to see what winder you need. Note that they come in Left and Right depending on the orientation of the spring in the barrel. If you remove the lid of the barrel and the spring is wound in a clockwise direction, that would take a right handed winder. If wound CCW, that would take a left handed winder.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by GuyMontag

[JayPoorJay]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:40 PM, GuyMontag said:

The size of the winders needed will depend on the barrel sizes in the watches you work on. This chart shows the diameter of the part of the winder that goes into the barrel in the first column. Most of the watches I work on are in the 10 to 11.5 ligne size, which usually means I end up using the size 5 or 6 size winder. It might make sense to get them as you need them; measure the barrel inner diameter of the watch you are working on and compare to the chart to see what winder you need. Note that they come in Left and Right depending on the orientation of the spring in the barrel. If you remove the lid of the barrel and the spring is wound in a clockwise direction, that would take a right handed winder. If wound CCW, that would take a left handed winder.

 

Thanks Guy... And thanks for the chart! It goes a long way and I STILL got a long way to go...

New house (ton of work) 4 old cars and a 86 GoldWing project,,, and now living with my fiancee - now that's a project, lol... I got my work cut out for me. 

I have an Elgin 580 I found on eBay (tiny little thing - I did not know) that I was/am working on... Then I found 2 more for almost nothing for spare parts. In the original the escape wheel shaft was broken, the main spring was broken and I lost the seconds hand. I will need a new main spring prewound, or hand wind a spring from a spare. But I hear that's not a good idea AND I have gorilla hands.

With so much new information coming into the old coconut, it's hard to organize it. Everything just gets all scrambled up.

A long way to go in this learning curve!

[Phil125]

For $250 bucks you could buy a printer and print them for yourself.  Which would be great because 3d printers are a wonderful tools for many projects.  I did a quick search after I read your post and found several free printable designs out there for 3d printed mainspring winders.

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5673815  (This is the free files to print them. The exact ones in the ebay post.  Probably $10 in resin/filament)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3540660

Edited March 7, 2023 by Phil125
Adding links

[JayPoorJay]

Good Morning All...

So, I am guessing you can get a jist of where I am in my watch making journey just based on this post and thread, with that in mind, I need a favor.

Please let me know what you think.

These (see photos) are up for auction on eBay. I expect to work on watches of various sizes, and of course - pocket watches. 

With that in mind, will a set like this serve my needs (as far as you can tell) for what I'm intending? Of course, as I get deeper into this perhaps I will get a more expensive and fancy set, but for now...?

And, time is of the essence. The auction is up in 4+ hours.

[markr]

I have this set and I love them.  My go to set.

[JayPoorJay]

10 minutes ago, markr said:

I have this set and I love them.  My go to set.

Ok! Great to hear. And they work for you in your everyday? I mean, will they work for the kind of stuff I (think, lol) I want to do size-wise?

Right now they are running at $96.00. What's a right maximum price, there and abouts? Jus ask'n...

Edited March 7, 2023 by JayPoorJay

[markr]

Great for vintage wrist watches.

[JayPoorJay]

HA! It's either this OR a cafe racer seat for my motorcycle project. My word! 

I just placed a couple of bids and eBay was leading me to over 170$... 

I think for now I will dip my fingers in alcohol and hand wind springs gloveless and til the numbers of curses and swears makes 100s of $$$$ make sense.

I'm backing away for now, I think

Thank you all for your time and attention.

Oh, and a ps.

ps. This was the result of attempting pressing in a crystal on my (very special to me) citizen calibre eco drive 2100... Back to the drawing board, lol. New crystal is in the mail x2

[Phil125]

2 hours ago, JayPoorJay said:

 

I just placed a couple of bids and eBay was leading me to over 170$... 

I think for now I will dip my fingers in alcohol and hand wind springs gloveless and til the numbers of curses and swears makes 100s of $$$$ make sense.

I'm backing away for now, I think

Don't sleep on buying a printer.  

I started printing a set after I read your post.  Should cost me about 10 bucks once I get dowel pins.  Another day or two before I'll finish a full set.  

https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder  full link with the instructions and full sets from the ebay one you posted.

[JayPoorJay]

2 hours ago, Phil125 said:

Don't sleep on buying a printer.  

I started printing a set after I read your post.  Should cost me about 10 bucks once I get dowel pins.  Another day or two before I'll finish a full set.  

https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder  full link with the instructions and full sets from the ebay one you posted.

Wow! I'll think on it. 

Thing is, right now, new (old) house, new job, new living with fiancee, old cars, new curve with watch as hobby etc,,, my brain is stretched to capacity - for now.

Is the 3D printer learning curve STEEP? That's what I'm afraid of...

[LittleWatchShop]

10 minutes ago, JayPoorJay said:

Is the 3D printer learning curve STEEP? That's what I'm afraid of...

Hard to say, not knowing you personally.  Here is my experience.

When a friend of mind tried to convince me to buy a 3D printer (about 5 yrs ago), I was concerned about the curve, so I downloaded some open-source software and started learning how to use it.  A little complex, but I got the hang of it in about three weeks...saw the utility and then dropped the $1400 for a printer.  I have never looked back!!

I print stuff every day.

Regarding those winders that you did not buy.  I have a set like that (passed down from my Dad). I don't care for them.  I prefer the vintage K&D winders, myself.

2 hours ago, Phil125 said:

I started printing a set after I read your post. 

what kind of filament are you using?

[Phil125]

20 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

then dropped the $1400 for a printer.  I have never looked back!!

 

what kind of filament are you using?

$1400!  That's jumping into the deep end.  He could easily print these on a $200 printer.

https://store.creality.com/products/ender-3-v2-3d-printer?spm=..collection_6441e458-3e77-43ed-baf5-2671b3222c52.albums_1.1&spm_prev=..product_b106bb92-d782-4ffe-ac74-94654f4ac111.header_1.1

 

I'm using PLA at 0.1 and 50% infill.  They came out very strong.

 

Jay,

The learning curve is not bad if your mechanically/computer inclined.  Good level bed is the key.  If you spend more on a printer you can get an auto leveler and take much of the headaches out of 3d printing.  Mine does not have one.  I print quite a bit and only have to level every few months and it takes me 5 minutes.

Teaching tech's videos are great for getting started.  

 

[LittleWatchShop]

2 minutes ago, Phil125 said:

$1400!  That's jumping into the deep end.  He could easily print these on a $200 printer.

A Lulzbot Mini back in 2019.  Things are cheaper now.  But I still love my printer.

[Phil125]

9 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

A Lulzbot Mini back in 2019.  Things are cheaper now.  But I still love my printer.

I did the opposite got a cheap $150 Ender 3 about the same time to see if I actually liked it and would upgrade if needed.  Never needed too, that thing is a tank.  I've done several hundred prints on it in the last 4 years and never had to replace a thing other than nozzles.  Still prints as well as the day I bought it.  Might get a resin printer soon though.

[JayPoorJay]

I'm thinking, Yup.

Thinking I'm going crazy for even considering it

Y'all are trouble!

[Waggy]

Ha ha.... after reading this thread I'm starting to get the itch to buy one. My son has one but is leaving for university soon and I assume his will go with him so maybe time to get my own and learn for myself while I have an in-house coach to keep me on the right path (barring the teenage eye rolling and references to old people not understanding technology!)

What are the pros and cons in a filament and resin type, why would you pick one over the other?

[Phil125]

7 hours ago, Waggy said:

Ha ha.... after reading this thread I'm starting to get the itch to buy one. My son has one but is leaving for university soon and I assume his will go with him so maybe time to get my own and learn for myself while I have an in-house coach to keep me on the right path (barring the teenage eye rolling and references to old people not understanding technology!)

What are the pros and cons in a filament and resin type, why would you pick one over the other?

It all depends on what you want to print.  If you want to print highly accurate detailed models you go with resin.  Resin printers have smaller build plates for the price.  FDM(filament) has a much better cost per volume ratio at the sacrifice of some detail quality.  

If your plan is to mostly print functional objects like the Mainspring winder, tools, brackets, clamps, etc.  You would want an FDM printer for the speed and build size.  If you need more accuracy in your prints for artwork, sculptures, screws, and nuts etc  you would go resin.    

I'm not an expert, but I feel FDM is your best bang for your buck if you are not planning on doing artwork, sculptures, or miniatures.

[valleyguy]

On 3/7/2023 at 8:59 PM, Phil125 said:

I did the opposite got a cheap $150 Ender 3 about the same time to see if I actually liked it and would upgrade if needed.  Never needed too, that thing is a tank.  I've done several hundred prints on it in the last 4 years and never had to replace a thing other than nozzles.  Still prints as well as the day I bought it.  Might get a resin printer soon though.

What version of the ender 3 did you get, after looking on ebay there are several versions of the ender 3 available, was it the 3 or 3v2 after reading this thread i'd like to have a go at printing the winder set.

I know nothing about 3D printing but after reading this thread, downloading the github files and watching the youtube videos, i'm up for printing a set of winders.

I downloaded the cura software aswell so the stl winder files will open and you can see the winder part and slice it ready for printing, it even tells you the the printing time, the only thing i'm missing is the 3D printer.

This thread as kick started me, i've downloaded the freecad software so i can have a go at designing a couple of different movement spacer rings.

Printing a set of mainspring winders yourself will pay for the 3d printer, fantastic thread guys.

[LittleWatchShop]

39 minutes ago, valleyguy said:

i've downloaded the freecad software

I love freecad. 

[Phil125]

1 hour ago, valleyguy said:

What version of the ender 3 did you get.

I have an old model similar to the $160 one on the site.  If you don't mind spending a bit more get the S1.  It has auto leveling and a few other bells and whistles for $300.

https://store.creality.com/collections/ender-series-3d-printer?utm_source=googleads&gclid=Cj0KCQiApKagBhC1ARIsAFc7Mc6A73NLqNR3Ib9PjE6SJ_q7mSmfT4YAOKm2HZ-7luXIFLxm0AFKkuUaAmvQEALw_wcB