Some Basic Balance Installation Questions

[MCBwatchrepair]

On 2/11/2023 at 7:39 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Please confirm that you have done this.

The behavior you describe is indeed strange.

Check the end and side shake of the fork.  Is it possible you have a broken pivot?  That would allow the pallet fork to angle down toward the plate and miss the jewel.  But this would be evident if you did the pallet "click" test shown in the video.

What is this "Click test" that you speak of?

 

[VWatchie]

28 minutes ago, MCBwatchrepair said:

What is this "Click test" that you speak of?

 

Haven't followed this too closely and I don't think "click test" is consensus terminology and should possibly be called a "flip test" as that's what is said in the mentioned video. See at 25:23.

 

Edited January 6 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

36 minutes ago, MCBwatchrepair said:

What is this "Click test" that you speak of?

 

Its just a snapping back and forth of the lever, it indicates that the lever is receiving the power thats travelled through the train from the mainspring barrel. Using tweezers is not a great idea unless you have very good movement control, a small artist's paintbrush could save you some broken lever part heartache. 

[VWatchie]

46 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Its just a snapping back and forth of the lever

AKA "pallet fork" (if anyone should be feeling confused).

On 2/17/2023 at 2:59 PM, JohnFrum said:

The Sep 1995 issue of the Horological Times has two articles on hairspring manipulation by Archie Perkins and Henry Fried. The October 1995 issue has the second part of Fried’s article.

https://www.awci.com/wp-content/uploads/ht/1995/1995-09-web.pdf

https://www.awci.com/wp-content/uploads/ht/1995/1995-10-web.pdf

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

AKA "pallet fork" (if anyone should be feeling confused).

Thanks watchie, sorry i prefer to use the traditional terms. I think of the pallets as the end that holds the jewels that engage the escape teeth and the fork as the end that engages the roller and impulse jewel. Lever sometimes called the anchor I just think of it as a good idea to learn all the variations of names, they vary from country to country and generation to generation. I sometimes bracket the name with a common variation used. The habit comes from my joinery background, i was taught by old school joiners that apprenticed in the 30s and 40s

[MCBwatchrepair]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

AKA "pallet fork" (if anyone should be feeling confused).

https://www.awci.com/wp-content/uploads/ht/1995/1995-09-web.pdf

https://www.awci.com/wp-content/uploads/ht/1995/1995-10-web.pdf

oh yea i didnt know it was called that

[VWatchie]

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thanks watchie, sorry i prefer to use the traditional terms.

No worries! I only commented since we're in the forum "New to watch repair ** Safe Zone For Learner Watch Repairers **" forum. I remember my first year being constantly confused over terminology. I still remember trying to figure out the difference between the "motion works" and the "dial train" only to discover at long length they're the same  And, you're right, to facilitate communication it's a good idea to learn the various names for the same thing. 

On 2/17/2023 at 2:59 PM, JohnFrum said:

The Sep 1995 issue of the Horological Times has two articles on hairspring manipulation by Archie Perkins and Henry Fried. The October 1995 issue has the second part of Fried’s article.

This got me curious to see if I could find more issues of the magazine and I did!

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

No worries! I only commented since we're in the forum "New to watch repair ** Safe Zone For Learner Watch Repairers **" forum. I remember my first year being constantly confused over terminology. I still remember trying to figure out the difference between the "motion works" and the "dial train" only to discover at long length they're the same  And, you're right, to facilitate communication it's a good idea to learn the various names for the same thing. 

I just assume that if someone didn't know what was being said that they ask about it. Thats what i would do, in some way i think if you ask you are more inclined to remember than if you were told. Goes back to the same principle that you can tell someone something until you are blue in face, it generally wont sink in. Only when they say it themselves out loud do they realise and accept it. A lot of folk have the inherent idea that they dont like to be told anything, a good way to win an argument when someone is at fault is to draw them into having them say the issue out loud. 

[VWatchie]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I just assume that if someone didn't know what was being said that they ask about it. Thats what i would do

That's what I do too. Still, I think most people won't for fear of making a fool out of themselves. It takes a lot of confidence to stick your chin out, especially when you know the question may be wrong or irrelevant. I have worked as a teacher for many years and one of the biggest challenges is to get people to stop me talking whenever they have a question. As long as the question grinds in their heads, they don't hear a word of what I say. This is also why I am adamant about announcing and keeping time for breaks even if I have to stop in the middle of a sentence. If, for example, you need to make an important call or just need to go to the toilet, you are guaranteed to think about when you will have a break instead of focusing on the teaching.

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Goes back to the same principle that you can tell someone something until you are blue in face, it generally wont sink in.

Tell me all about it!  When I say to the class three times in a row "This is crucially important, without the following information you won't pass the examination and you will possibly be terminated from the program" at least one student out of 25 or so will somehow miss it. Communication is the most crucial activity to reach any kind of success in life and it's also one of the most difficult.

One sacred principle to stick to as a teacher is "Don't answer a question that was never asked". Still, I often find it difficult to adhere to this principle. I guess it's the teacher in me who just has a hard time keeping my mouth shut, so I guess that's why I couldn't help myself with the lever/pallet fork comment.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

so I guess that's why I couldn't help myself with the lever/pallet fork comment.

You were catering for everyone.  I can go along with that some dont want to ask for fear of embarrassment, something that clearly doesnt bother me. You may notice i dont ask about much, if i see something i dont understand it gives me the opportunity to dive into a book. Its usually when i have an idea and want feedback if it could work. I'll certainly take on board your advice and include more popular names and terms. I think we are of the same ilk ( I'll let you google that one yourself ) and like to be asked questions, I've employed quite a few apprentices over the years and enjoyed explaining and teaching them.