Jump to content

ETA 12836 runs very well after service, but with extremely low amplitude


Recommended Posts

Hi all,

As the subject states, I'm having an odd problem with an ETA 12836 movement I just serviced. It runs steadily with an excellent trace on the timegraph, but with very low amplitude (175-190). It also doesn't appear to usually start running when the watch is wound; it takes a little shake or nudge of the balance wheel to get it going, but once it's going it runs consistently and smoothly.

I have disassembled the entire wheel train and re-cleaned them to be sure I didn't over-oil. I checked that the mainspring barrel was seated correctly. I removed the top balance jewels, soaked the entire balance in one-dip and reassembled with a fresh drop of oil, and the watch shows absolutely no improvement. I have also tried demagnetizing to no effect.

The movement and wheel train all seem to be in great shape as is the balance. When given a puff with an air blower the balance oscillates very freely, continuing to move down to a very small increment.

In the course of the service I replaced the mainspring with a brand new one from a reputable (I think?) dealer (watchmaterial.com). I greased the barrel wall in six places with 8217 before installing the mainspring.

I am really at a loss as to why the amplitude is so low. Is there something I'm overlooking here?

Thanks a lot!

EDIT: I should add that visually the balance runs true and snappy, but it does appear to have a very short arc.

PXL_20230114_002335621.jpg

Edited by cortman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, dadistic said:

A movement requiring a shake to start is an indication that the watch is very far out of beat.  Your timegrapher may not be giving you good information. 

Oh that's a very good point that I hadn't even thought of. Makes a lot of sense. I'm going to play with that a bit and report back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dadistic said:

A movement requiring a shake to start is an indication that the watch is very far out of beat.  Your timegrapher may not be giving you good information. 

But looking at his timegrapher trace, his beat error is zero. Could be a dirty balance of pallet fork.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume that you did check the wheel train and balance wheel, so that they're all good, the train runs with almost no friction and the balance oscillates very freely. Timgrapher shows stable running means the escapement is ok. At this point I think the problem could be some where in the mainspring barrel. I once had a case that the watch runs at low amplitude because a previous watchmaker damaged the barrel lid putting it back in using tweezer. Basically the lid got bent inward and it was rubbing against the mainspring. I bent the lid back to flat and that solved the amplitude problem. You did replace the mainspring with a new one from a reputable dealer so the mainspring height should be right, but check for that as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does the balance spin if you remove the escape wheel and give the balance a puff of air? The balance should be able to move the pallet fork from side to side without much resistance. However if the impulse jewel or the pallet fork horn is dirty you could lose a lot of amplitude there. I had an ETA 2472 with very low amplitude that was solved by properly cleaning the horn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just closing the loop on this one- the mainspring slipped off the arbor, and in the process of re-shaping it to catch it broke- so I got an entirely new mainspring/arbor/barrel assembly (only a couple dollars more than just a mainspring, surprisingly) and after installation and reassembly, I'm getting 290 degrees right away. It appears the mainspring was probably not correct for this watch (boo, watchmaterial!).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Lots of rust on that hairspring Nev, would you even try to clean it up ?
    • How do you find the working distance from microscope lens to movement? Is it comfortable enough to get tools in?
    • Once you have the collet closer bits off, and the pulley off, there are two nuts on the spindle. These must be removed. There is a large nut in the back of the headstock with two holes, remove this with an appropriate wrench. The front large nut comes off too. The spindle now comes out- but wait- there's more! There is a spacer between the outer races of the bearings; the spindle will almost certainly come out "assembled" with both bearings and this spacer (it can actually come out front or back-ways with the large nuts off the headstock). You have to manage to press out the spindle from the rear bearing, get the spacer off, then remove the front bearing, now you can get to the key.   Imagining you get it all apart without causing any damage to the bearings, now the fun part starts. You must apply preload to the bearings, and this is a very tricky endeavor. Basically once you have the bearings back on, and are in the casting, you snug up the rear nut (one of the two) on the spindle, checking the play of the spindle with at least a 0.002mm reading indicator, until there is zero axial play, then just a little more, then snug up the second nut to lock things in place. Of course snugging up the second nut influences the preload, so you can go back and forth a few times to get it right. Too much preload and bearing life diminishes, too little, and you get poor performance, poor surface finishes, ball skidding, etc.   When I replaced the bearings in one of mine many years ago, I was surprised to find that the bearings were regular deep-groove bearings, but of a higher precision class than normal. I replaced with dimensionally identical angular contact bearings, class P4. In trying to set the preload, I just about lost my mind, so called Barden (the high precision arm of FAG bearing makers, and who made my new ones) and a nice engineer told me that the folks at Leinen were either crazy, or really good- he also said it's 100% A-OK to set up deep groove bearings with preload like this, but best is angular contact. In this bearing setup, the standard way to do it is to have a spacer between the outer races, and another between the inner races. Leinen has the former but not the latter, haha. His advice was to make an inner spacer. The trick is it has to be the exact same length as the outer spacer, within like a micron.  Then you just tighten everything up and the preload is set, because the bearings (the new ones) are ground in a way that they have proper preload in that situation. Easy. Sort of- if you have the means to make the other spacer!   Just to note- Schaublin does the preloading as Leinen did on these on their lathes using angular contact bearings. There is a procedure in the manual, where you tighten the nut until axial play is zero, then a certain number of degrees more. This works on their setup as the nut itself locks without a second nut, and they spent the time to figure it all out in a repeatable way.   I say all this not to scare you off from dismantling your headstock, just to give a heads-up what you're up against to get it back to where it was before.
    • Do, write a nice letter to Santa. I do all disassembly and assembly under the microscope. I consider it a necessity.
×
×
  • Create New...