Waltham Grade 625--need a couple of jewels

[LittleWatchShop]

I bought this movement as a donor when trying to source a screw for the Waltham Crescent St.  Now that the Crescent is running on the bench, I decided to see about bringing the donor to life.  Oh my...what a mess.  Rust.  Anyway, I am working on the rust but in the mean time, I see a couple of cracked jewels.

This is a project watch...a learning watch.  There is no downside to anything I try.  It does not have a case either.

So, what is the best approach to replacing these jewels?  Do I replace the jewel and its brass housing, or do I punch out the jewel from the housing and press another in?

Lol...another Waltham.

MASOCHIST
mas·och·ism
(măs′ə-kĭz′əm)n.

A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

 

 

 

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

punch out the jewel

I like the word punch like a hydraulic press perhaps? After all it is a Waltham it should bill a survive a hydraulic press across the entire plate.

That had be nice to have a picture of the jewel so we don't have to go and look up what kind of jewel it is. If the watches old enough they had burnished in jewels and wall from actually sold those I've occasionally seen them on eBay. Otherwise the probably in a setting and then the entire setting comes out. Or if it's new enough it could be just a straight friction in jewel. But I conveniently didn't memorize all the Waltham model numbers to know how the newer or hopeless one osu pictured be nice.

Oh then there's the other little thing? How bad is the jewel cracked is it like an in trouble flaw where it looks cracked that you don't see anything on the bearing surfaces? A lot of the natural stones will have natural flaws and they don't seem to cause any harm and because it's a pain to try to replace vintage jewels unless they're actually a problem sometimes is best just to leave them alone.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

Setting

[mikepilk]

Those are easy - if you can find replacements !

Undo the screws and the jewel with brass surround push out. Those train ones shouldn't be difficult. I bought some scrap Waltham movements and use those for parts. 

There were I couple of guys in the US I used to buy jewels for pocket watches from - they had a good stock of old jewels. I've lost contact details, so let me know if you find them ! 

[LittleWatchShop]

Here

A backup plan would be to make a brass bushing to replace the jewel...until I source a jewel.  One of these is workable...the other is pretty bad.

[LittleWatchShop]

Well, for now, I reassembled the watch after cleaning it. Hah...cleaning. the hairspring had rust gunk on it. With patience, I was able to scrape off the majority. Then ultrasonic and more scraping...in good enough condition until I find some parts. Will search for a new hairspring...or not. I bought this to serve as a donor...now trying to revive it...the donor delimma!

It is running...but poorly as I would expect.

Edited January 13, 2023 by LittleWatchShop

[LittleWatchShop]

Here it is

[JohnR725]

The other thing in addition to outright replacing the jewels would be to replace them with the modern jewel. Looks like there's enough for the brass setting that you could probably smash the old one out as us easiest way to get to them ream out for modern jewel of put a modern jewel in. Of course the only issue is no now be a pretty red color rather than the original color. But if you can't get an original that is something you can do as you not worried about un-burnishing the old one in burnishing a jewel in then putting a modern in is fine.

Although I have seen on eBay Waltham jewels for burnishing in not sure they're ever met the burnished into these settings that?

Oh snap much of rust on the hairspring I'm assuming they're still Russ on the balance staff C might want to try polishing the pivots that might improve things otherwise replacing the staff would probably be a good thing to do.

This is a interesting website I notice he says balance jewels but he also uses the word plate jewels C a might ask if he has anything.

https://www.daveswatchparts.com/Jewels.html

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

12 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Russ on the balance staff

Odd as it may be, the staff had zero rust. Shiny as a new silver dollar

[mikepilk]

I found the two main sources I used to buy American pocket watch parts from - especially jewels. They don't have websites, you have to email. 

It's been a couple of years, so I don't know if they're still active:

Bob McKnight  :  tbob45 @ aol.com

Brian Cavanaugh :  pwpartsetc @ pwatch.com 

and plenty of links here : http://watchrepairinfo.com/pwparts.htm

Edited January 14, 2023 by mikepilk

[LittleWatchShop]

Well, well.  I was digging through one of my scrap drawers and found another 625 disassembled.  It too had seen some water but in better shape by an order of magnitude.  The balance and hairspring are in MUCH better shape.

Oddly, the bridge jewels are mounted differently.  It has a later serial number and I guess they decided to save money on screws.

Not sure how to retrofit the jewels, but will noodle on it.

[Vinito]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Not sure how to retrofit the jewels, but will noodle on it.

Superglue and duct tape !

[LittleWatchShop]

I suppose I could just swap the bridge, but they are serialized and it is a bit of a no no among collectors.

[dadistic]

I don't know what books you have, but Henry B. Fried's "Bench Practices For Watch Repairers"  has a good section on bezel set (rubbed in) jewels. This includes info on the settings, including how to make one on one of your several lathes

It helps to have jeweling chucks, which I am trying to acquire, but I don't think they are absolutely necessary. 

This is an area where I am just starting to get my feet wet, too, so good luck!

Cheers!

[LittleWatchShop]

20 minutes ago, dadistic said:

I don't know what books you have, but Henry B. Fried's "Bench Practices For Watch Repairers"  has a good section on bezel set (rubbed in) jewels. This includes info on the settings, including how to make one on one of your several lathes

It helps to have jeweling chucks, which I am trying to acquire, but I don't think they are absolutely necessary. 

This is an area where I am just starting to get my feet wet, too, so good luck!

Cheers!

Ahh yes...I have that book.  And I have some jeweling chucks--have not used them yet.  I will start reading now!!

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, dadistic said:

It helps to have jeweling chucks, which I am trying to acquire, but I don't think they are absolutely necessary

Depending upon the setting the jewel Chuck is very nice. A lot of the settings are basically a disk and trying to hold a disk of thin disk the lathe collet and have it remain Absolutely where it's supposed to be when you're tightening it up as problematic. So having something to press against on the backside and then push against on the front side allows it to the absolute perfect word supposed to be so yes they are really nice to have.

6 hours ago, Vinito said:

Superglue and duct tape !

While superglue is frowned In

 

7 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Oddly, the bridge jewels are mounted differently.  It has a later serial number and I guess they decided to save money on screws

watch repair it definitely can have its place don't know if I've heard about duct tape in watch repair though.

It's the classic problem with pocket watches especially if they're made over time will be variations. I rather like discussion on another group somewhere where someone saw a video and decided that his watch was all wrong and had been retrofitted modified hacked because it didn't match the video on YouTube. So then I had to go through employed out then I believe is a Hamilton that certain serial numbers were single roller versus double roller. In their own whole bunch of other things that had been changed it is very hard to convince this person that his watch was right because it was after all this other serial numbers. But it's very hard to convince somebody when you see a YouTube video the perception is it has to be right no matter what who cares what the parts book said.

Then if the watch was made over the years like there's a 12 size Illinois that I have experience with you end up with lots of lots of variations and unfortunately a lot of them are never documented. See basically stuck having to compare the two watches to see what if anything will interchange even though according the parts book there are identical.

[Vinito]

46 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

While superglue is frowned In...

Challenge accepted! I vow to engineer a movement constructed completely of transparent cyanoacrylate !! Maybe I'll cast the parts with molds made from duct tape.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

t's the classic problem with pocket watches especially if they're made over time will be variations. I rather like discussion on another group somewhere where someone saw a video and decided that his watch was all wrong and had been retrofitted modified hacked because it didn't match the video on YouTube. So then I had to go through employed out then I believe is a Hamilton that certain serial numbers were single roller versus double roller. In their own whole bunch of other things that had been changed it is very hard to convince this person that his watch was right because it was after all this other serial numbers. But it's very hard to convince somebody when you see a YouTube video the perception is it has to be right no matter what who cares what the parts book said.

Then if the watch was made over the years like there's a 12 size Illinois that I have experience with you end up with lots of lots of variations and unfortunately a lot of them are never documented. See basically stuck having to compare the two watches to see what if anything will interchange even though according the parts book there are identical.

This is quite interesting. 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Vinito said:

transparent cyanoacrylate !!

Transparent isn't new to Waltham  they had the idea first. They didn't have any of this newfangled material's lab use something more traditional..

https://omegaforums.net/threads/insane-crystal-carved-waltham-pocket-watch.23310/

 

 

[ifibrin]

12 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Well, well.  I was digging through one of my scrap drawers and found another 625 disassembled.  It too had seen some water but in better shape by an order of magnitude.  The balance and hairspring are in MUCH better shape.

Oddly, the bridge jewels are mounted differently.  It has a later serial number and I guess they decided to save money on screws.

Not sure how to retrofit the jewels, but will noodle on it.

Are the settings (with jewels) in the newer bridge friction fitted, but otherwise the same size as on the older bridge? Or are the jewels in the newer bridge directly mounted on the bridge in a faux-setting?

I imagine that if there are settings in the newer style bridge, but just friction fitted, you could push them out and find some way to  machine two grooves on them to fit the mounting screws for the settings on the older style bridge.

Although you would have to check if the pivots fitted… they might have used different pivot sizes too.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by ifibrin