Ethan Allen Clock with CROWN movement runs fast

[gbschott]

Good Day,

I am George Schott, I live in Newport News VA. I am looking for advice with regard to a clock that I am attempting to repair for my neighbor.  The clock is a 50 year old Ethan Allan "Tall" mantel clock.  The clock had stopped running several years ago and his wife has been wanting it fixed. My neighbor saw the number of wall clocks that I have (all antiques) and ask me who I take them to when they need repair. I told him that over the years I have learned to maintain and repair them myself. So he asked if I could look at his Ethan Allen clock. I said I would and this is what has transpired since I received it.

The clock has a CROWN movement. The original movement was well beyond repair, i.e. a spring was broke, the bushing plate holes were beyond repair and a gear shaft was out of round. So I search the internet and found on e-bay another CROWN movement that matched exactly. I purchased it, cleaned it, lightly lubed it installed it and started it working. It seemed to run fine but then after a day it began to run fast, really fast.

As an example in one hour it would gain 3hrs.

So I adjusted the BOB, no luck, made the BOB heavier (added some weight) still no luck. So I decided to try different pendulums of varying types and sizes from my other clocks that I have acquired over the years, no matter what I tried the movement still runs fast.

I even decided to try and make a pendulum for it .  The original pendulum shaft was 6" long . So I made one that is 10" and attached the BOB.  This resulted in the pendulum moving slower and a bit more gracefully and it did slow the movement but the clock still gains time quickly. It gains about 20-25mins in an hour. 

I have taken the clock to a couple repair shops in the local area and each has told me that I have to figure out the appropriate Pendulum length but neither had any other ideas.

I have never seen this type situation with any clock ( my own or others) typically a simple adjustment of the BOB (up or down) tends to solve the rate issue of clocks I've worked.

So I thought I'd reach out to this forum and ask folks who have more experience then I and ask you might think is going on with this clock?  Is there a way to slow the gears aside from the pendulum. Is there a way I could add govenor/mechanical of some type?

I'd like to give the clock back to its owner in its original configuration and nothing special or unique added.

Movement Data: CROWN, 0-Jewels, unadjustable

Thank you all for reading this and for any advice you may have.

George

 

[watchweasol]

Hello George and welcome to the forum,  You seem to have a bit of a problem. Is the pendulum the one which came with the clock or the one which came with the donor clock.  Also we would appreciate pictures of the movement, front and back as there may be other issues causing your problem    thanks

[gbschott]

Sir thank you for your response. The pendumlum is he one that came with the clock. When I purchased the movement it came without it's pendulum.

As for pics. I'll have to remove it from its case to snap pics from all sides. So I'll follow up with those very soon.

Again thank you for your interest in my issue.  george

[gbschott]

Ethan Allan w/CROWN movement - PICS added.

Attached are some pics of the mechanism that is driving the Ethan Allan clock.  Hopefully these will help to determine if the movement is faulty.

When I purchased the movement, I went on line and found a parts breakdown of this CROWN movement and it appeared to me that all was in order.

As I said it seems to be mechanically fine, the "Beat" is perfect, but when its original pendulum is added (and the BOB adjusted fully to slow)  the clock runs 2-3 hours fast in a 24Hr period. The homemade pendulum (as I mentioned at the start) is 11" long and I created a BOB for it just to see if I could slow the movement by adding weight. I did get the clock to slow down to gaining 20mins in a 1hr period. But still it runs fast.

I really appreciate any help you can provide.  Thank you for reviewing this issue.  george

Edited October 26, 2022 by gbschott

[watchweasol]

Hi George  Thanks for the pic's, what I would liik for in the first instance is the escapement. Are the pallets entering and leaving the escapement wheel cleanly and not skipping, by that I mean If the pallets are not locking properly one tooth at a time the wheel can skip  one or two teeth before locking again. This can be due to bad adjustment of the depth of locking or worn pallet faces and or a worn escape wheel. As the pendulum is original its un likley to be that.  So check out the pallets, locking and the escape wheel. also check for worn pivot holes and pivot relating to the pallets and escape wheel as these can cause the same problems with the lockings..

[oldhippy]

Are you sure the mainspring is correct too strong will cause the clock to gain. The same applies to the suspension spring it must be the correct one.  

[watchweasol]

Hi  not knowing the history of the clock some times you have to look at the improbable  for example whats been changed in the past and what may if changed cause your problem. Hence Old Hippys input, the suspension may be the wrong one. too strong, too weak also as mentioned the mainspring. Check out the obvious things first, wear and tear and if it proves out that all is ok then dig deeper.

[gbschott]

WW and Oldhippy, gentlemen, good day. Thank you both for your suggestions.  I will give the movement a thorough look over and check the items as you have suggested.  I will snap pics of the parts and post those here. If this site allows it I will take a vid of the movement as it is functioning and maybe through that media you guys will see something that looks out of place or malfunctioning.

Thank you again guys for taking time to help troubleshoot this very unusual situation.  More to follow.  George

[oldhippy]

It looks in the photo of the movement in it's case the tip of the pendulum is some way from the bottom of the case. If it is gaining you need a longer pendulum stem. 

[gbschott]

Etahn Allen Clock with CROWN Movement

UPDATE:  Mystery SOLVED!!!

WatchWeasol and OldHippy, gentlemen thank you for your advice and guidance. Yesterday 29 Oct I spent all afternoon and partially into the evening working on this "runs fast" issue and allow me to tell you what I learned.  

It is definitely the escapement, but not in a way that it is faulty but actually that the escapement was designed for a different type clock. As I was looking over the gearing of the movement that is in the clock I didn't notice anything unusual but as you guys suggested I focused on the escapement. Again not noticing anything I decided to go to my clocks and look at their individual movements and it dawned on me that the escapements of the movements were of varying sizes (diameter and number/size of the teeth/cogs).

I returned to the problematic clock and I did as OldHippy suggested I made a temp pendulum shaft that was 22" long, I attached a heavy machine bolt to its base and set it in motion.  The pendulum was now taking longer strokes and the clock actually slowed a tremendous amount. So I added one additional weight , set the time and let it run.  3 hours later I returned to check and the clock was now running 4 minutes slow.  

So I got the escapement from the original movement and I compared it to the one that is in the clock. POOF!!! The one in the clock has 38 cogs and the drive gear has 6 cogs.  The one in my hand (the original) has 36 cogs and the drive gear has 9 cogs.

You guys did great by insisting I keep my focus on the Escapement and the Pendulum.  Thanks guys for taking time to help with this issue. You both were a great help.

Now all I have left to do is try to design a pendulum BOB that will distribute the weight across the base of the clock rather than pin-pointing up and down the base of the shaft. 

Thank you again guys for your support.  -George

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[watchweasol]

Hi Good result George  well done.