Seiko Kinetic

[TadasJ]

Hello, everyone

Today I’ve bought and tried to replace the battery of my dads old Seiko kinetic ska 192 calibre 5M62A as it didn’t hold time and I did it it ran for 10 seconds then stopped I tried to investigate see if anything was wrong took off the “motherboard” I’m not sure what they’re called and took off the kinetic movement part to see if anything was broken any pivots and so on but it was all fine by the looks of it I put in the old battery nothing changed and now I’m a bit stressed as this is an important watch to me. What are you guys’ opinions ?

Thanks !

[HectorLooi]

Seiko kinetics use a rechargeable battery instead of a normal silver oxide battery. The amount of charge inside the battery when it reaches you is a big variable. It might be 90% charged or it could be almost flat.

When installing the new battery, it is imperative that non-conductive tweezers be used. I've seen YT videos where normal metal tweezers were used and the guy said that it's ok. It is not!

Also, you have to make sure that the insulation on the battery clip is not damaged and the clip is not shorting the the battery.

I have given up on using my kinetic watch because it takes a lot of shaking just to keep it going for 24 hours. My Oral-B toothbrush charger can actually charge up my kinetic watch but it's a bit fiddly. It has to be placed in just the right place at the right angle. And it still takes several hours to get it charged up.

[TadasJ]

1 minute ago, HectorLooi said:

Seiko kinetics use a rechargeable battery instead of a normal silver oxide battery. The amount of charge inside the battery when it reaches you is a big variable. It might be 90% charged or it could be almost flat.

When installing the new battery, it is imperative that non-conductive tweezers be used. I've seen YT videos where normal metal tweezers were used and the guy said that it's ok. It is not!

Also, you have to make sure that the insulation on the battery clip is not damaged and the clip is not shorting the the battery.

I have given up on using my kinetic watch because it takes a lot of shaking just to keep it going for 24 hours. My Oral-B toothbrush charger can actually charge up my kinetic watch but it's a bit fiddly. It has to be placed in just the right place at the right angle. And it still takes several hours to get it charged up.

Ok so should I for now just be patient and let it charge, (like the seconds hand is not moving at all) and when should I start getting worried ?

[Paul80]

Look on YouTube for the kinetic shake, then following the instructions give it a good few minutes shake, it's more of a flick of the wrist than shake, it should than have enough charge to start the movement.

If it still stopped after that then something has gone wrong during the capacitor change, did you accidentally damage one of the coils, it's easily done or the new capacitor. There are coils for charging and coils for the movement, if it the movement coil the watch will not run regardless of the state of charge in the capacitor so that might be a good place to start looking

It is also possible to replace the capacitor with a battery so the charge circuit would no longer be needed.

Hope this has been of use

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, TadasJ said:

Today I’ve bought and tried to replace the battery of my dads old Seiko kinetic ska 192 calibre 5M62A

What battery have you put in  Tad ? As these seikos hold a capasitor ( basically a rechargeable battery ) its not just a case of popping a battery in. The watch may be trying to charge a non rechargeable battery. Possible damage to the battery you have installed by the charging circuit ?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches
Added detail

[TadasJ]

36 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Look on YouTube for the kinetic shake, then following the instructions give it a good few minutes shake, it's more of a flick of the wrist than shake, it should than have enough charge to start the movement.

If it still stopped after that then something has gone wrong during the capacitor change, did you accidentally damage one of the coils, it's easily done or the new capacitor. There are coils for charging and coils for the movement, if it the movement coil the watch will not run regardless of the state of charge in the capacitor so that might be a good place to start looking

It is also possible to replace the capacitor with a battery so the charge circuit would no longer be needed.

Hope this has been of use

 

 

I’ve done that with the shake no result and how would I be able to see if a coil is damaged ? Thanks !

25 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What battery have you put in  Tad ? As these seikos hold a capasitor ( basically a rechargeable battery ) its not just a case of popping a battery in. The watch may be trying to charge a non rechargeable battery. Possible damage to the battery you have installed by the charging circuit ?

I used a 3023-5MY and I’m pretty damn sure that’s the correct battery looks identical came with the same plastic insulator and the same bridge I think

[Neverenoughwatches]

31 minutes ago, TadasJ said:

I’ve done that with the shake no result and how would I be able to see if a coil is damaged ? Thanks !

I used a 3023-5MY and I’m pretty damn sure that’s the correct battery looks identical came with the same plastic insulator and the same bridge I think

Ok mate, i just wanted to get that question out of the way first before i started to think what the issue might be. As already mentioned the capacitor could have arrived to you completely drained. We have no idea how long these have been sat on a shelf waiting to be used and may have even dropped below a level of energy that makes them unable to be charged at all. I have had this a few times with batteries not in watches but i would be sure the same principle would apply. And as also is mentioned the charging module may just need to get up and running again after a long period of unuse. I would try wearing the watch for a day or so to see if things kick back into play. If not then back into the movement to look for signs of battery leakage that may have caused circuit damage. If you have already had some hand movement then thats a good sign and with some luck it may spring back into life with some normal wrist time. Come back in a couple of days if nothing comes from that. Fingers for you.

[TadasJ]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok mate, i just wanted to get that question out of the way first before i started to think what the issue might be. As already mentioned the capacitor could have arrived to you completely drained. We have no idea how long these have been sat on a shelf waiting to be used and may have even dropped below a level of energy that makes them unable to be charged at all. I have had this a few times with batteries not in watches but i would be sure the same principle would apply. And as also is mentioned the charging module may just need to get up and running again after a long period of unuse. I would try wearing the watch for a day or so to see if things kick back into play. If not then back into the movement to look for signs of battery leakage that may have caused circuit damage. If you have already had some hand movement then thats a good sign and with some luck it may spring back into life with some normal wrist time. Come back in a couple of days if nothing comes from that. Fingers for you.

Thanks a lot for the advice once again and the good luck Truly blessed to have a forum like this with people like you. 
Thanks ! And have a wonderful evening

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, TadasJ said:

Thanks a lot for the advice once again and the good luck Truly blessed to have a forum like this with people like you. 
Thanks ! And have a wonderful evening

No problem matey, all of us here just love our interest and enjoy helping others in any way and as best we can.

[HectorLooi]

If you have one of these, place the watch on the charger and if the second hand starts to do the double tick, then the charging circuit is working.

If you have an electric toothbrush charger, you can try finding the sweet spot for charging by putting the dead watch on it and see when the second hand starts moving. Give it a 2 hour charge and observe. 

I just found another interesting video on charging kinetic watches.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by HectorLooi
Forgot video link

[JohnR725]

14 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

As these seikos hold a capasitor ( basically a rechargeable battery )

yes there call capacitors but the reality is capacitors didn't work out and there now rechargeable lithium batteries

20 hours ago, TadasJ said:

calibre 5M62A

always nice to have the tech sheet. Then is this is a slightly later generation notice the description of the capacitor in the image it's not a capacitor.

But it still has problems like the capacitor in that you can't look at it to tell if it's charged up or not. then unlike the capacitor it requires a heck of a lot of shaking two charge it up which is why one of the charging units a really nice.

if you look in the tech sheet it tells you how to test to see if it's charging.

Oh and one other little thing quartz watches like this have gears like a mechanical watch and eventually they need to be serviced like a mechanical watch. In other words this is a really old quartz watch it probably needs to be serviced but it would help to follow the test procedures to see if there's any problems before attempting the service.

Seiko 5M62A&5M63A.pdf

[TadasJ]

On 9/30/2022 at 12:48 AM, HectorLooi said:

If you have one of these, place the watch on the charger and if the second hand starts to do the double tick, then the charging circuit is working.

If you have an electric toothbrush charger, you can try finding the sweet spot for charging by putting the dead watch on it and see when the second hand starts moving. Give it a 2 hour charge and observe. 

I just found another interesting video on charging kinetic watches.

 

 

On 9/29/2022 at 10:57 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok mate, i just wanted to get that question out of the way first before i started to think what the issue might be. As already mentioned the capacitor could have arrived to you completely drained. We have no idea how long these have been sat on a shelf waiting to be used and may have even dropped below a level of energy that makes them unable to be charged at all. I have had this a few times with batteries not in watches but i would be sure the same principle would apply. And as also is mentioned the charging module may just need to get up and running again after a long period of unuse. I would try wearing the watch for a day or so to see if things kick back into play. If not then back into the movement to look for signs of battery leakage that may have caused circuit damage. If you have already had some hand movement then thats a good sign and with some luck it may spring back into life with some normal wrist time. Come back in a couple of days if nothing comes from that. Fingers for you.

Hello, 

Hope you're having a great weekend so I've been wearing it now for about 2 and a half days and I got nothing out of it. Not too recently I put it on my electric toothbrush charge it's been going for 10 minutes I would say and still no movement from the watch. So I don't know do I wait and keep charging it on the charger or do I start to investigate what's wrong and where do I start, do I check the coils if so what kind of multimeter do I need and so on. What do you guys think

Thanks !

[HectorLooi]

I think you should remove the rechargeable battery and put in a similar sized silver oxide cell  just to make sure that the movement is working. 

Then you could test if the rechargeable battery has any charge in it. Use a normal multimeter set to 2V range and see if there is any voltage. The you could try charging the battery by connecting a 1.5V battery across the terminals. Leave it to charge overnight. If by morning there is 1.5V across the battery, then the battery is ok. 

Then by elimination, the fault is in the charging circuitry.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, TadasJ said:

 

Hello, 

Hope you're having a great weekend so I've been wearing it now for about 2 and a half days and I got nothing out of it. Not too recently I put it on my electric toothbrush charge it's been going for 10 minutes I would say and still no movement from the watch. So I don't know do I wait and keep charging it on the charger or do I start to investigate what's wrong and where do I start, do I check the coils if so what kind of multimeter do I need and so on. What do you guys think

Thanks !

Yes matey if you've had it on for two days now i think you can rule out that its going to charge. I have some experience with quartz watches and their testing but not specifically kinetic watches that use a charging module and capacitor. But i think i would be looking to see if there is any energy in the battery first. First needing to establish if the battery is not charging or not delivering its energy. What will you be using to inspect the movement? 

[TadasJ]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yes matey if you've had it on for two days now i think you can rule out that its going to charge. I have some experience with quartz watches and their testing but not specifically kinetic watches that use a charging module and capacitor. But i think i would be looking to see if there is any energy in the battery first. First needing to establish if the battery is not charging or not delivering its energy. What will you be using to inspect the movement? 

Well I currently don't have a multimeter but it's something I can easily go and buy at the store so no big deal other than that I don't really know what kind of testing equipment I would need and to inspect the movement I would say I have the essentials I bought everything I needed to service mechanical watches but I just happen to have this on my hands in the moment. But I've got loupes ranging 5-15x I've got tweezer, lube/oil, Screwdrivers. I do not have a microscope though.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

I think you should remove the rechargeable battery and put in a similar sized silver oxide cell  just to make sure that the movement is working. 

I wondered if this would be ok HectorLooi or if the charging aspect of the watch would affect the battery ?

[TadasJ]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

I think you should remove the rechargeable battery and put in a similar sized silver oxide cell  just to make sure that the movement is working. 

Then you could test if the rechargeable battery has any charge in it. Use a normal multimeter set to 2V range and see if there is any voltage. The you could try charging the battery by connecting a 1.5V battery across the terminals. Leave it to charge overnight. If by morning there is 1.5V across the battery, then the battery is ok. 

Then by elimination, the fault is in the charging circuitry.

I think it would be hard to find a similar silver oxide cell as this one has pretty odd contacts i'd say 

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yes matey if you've had it on for two days now i think you can rule out that its going to charge. I have some experience with quartz watches and their testing but not specifically kinetic watches that use a charging module and capacitor. But i think i would be looking to see if there is any energy in the battery first. First needing to establish if the battery is not charging or not delivering its energy. What will you be using to inspect the movement? 

 

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

I think you should remove the rechargeable battery and put in a similar sized silver oxide cell  just to make sure that the movement is working. 

Then you could test if the rechargeable battery has any charge in it. Use a normal multimeter set to 2V range and see if there is any voltage. The you could try charging the battery by connecting a 1.5V battery across the terminals. Leave it to charge overnight. If by morning there is 1.5V across the battery, then the battery is ok. 

Then by elimination, the fault is in the charging circuitry.

Is a multimeter like this good enough for the job ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, TadasJ said:

Well I currently don't have a multimeter but it's something I can easily go and buy at the store so no big deal other than that I don't really know what kind of testing equipment I would need and to inspect the movement I would say I have the essentials I bought everything I needed to service mechanical watches but I just happen to have this on my hands in the moment. But I've got loupes ranging 5-15x I've got tweezer, lube/oil, Screwdrivers. I do not have a microscope though.

A simple multimeter would get you some testing. A resistance test on the coils would be possible.  Breaks in the coils may not be easy to see with a loupe. If you are wanting to get more into watch repair a microscope is invaluable. 

9 minutes ago, TadasJ said:

I think it would be hard to find a similar silver oxide cell as this one has pretty odd contacts i'd say 

 

Is a multimeter like this good enough for the job ?

You have resistance testing on this. The ohms meter. Just a thought for a simple fault check. All quartz watches that i have disconnect the battery when the crown is pulled, I'm fairly sure rhis applies to most battery watches. Called a hacking feature on mechanical watches that halt the second hand.

21 minutes ago, TadasJ said:

I think it would be hard to find a similar silver oxide cell as this one has pretty odd contacts i'd say 

 

Is a multimeter like this good enough for the job ?

21 minutes ago, TadasJ said:

I think it would be hard to find a similar silver oxide cell as this one has pretty odd contacts i'd say 

 

Is a multimeter like this good enough for the job ?

You have resistance testing on this. The ohms meter. Just a thought for a simple fault check. All quartz watches that i have disconnect the battery when the crown is pulled, I'm fairly sure rhis applies to most battery watches. Called a hacking feature on mechanical watches that halt the second hand.

23 minutes ago, TadasJ said:

I think it would be hard to find a similar silver oxide cell as this one has pretty odd contacts i'd say 

 

Is a multimeter like this good enough for the job ?

The probes ends on this as with most multimeters will be too large for the small contact circuit points of a quartz movement. I attached a fine needle to each of the probes to make testing easier and more accurate.

[TadasJ]

37 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

A simple multimeter would get you some testing. A resistance test on the coils would be possible.  Breaks in the coils may not be easy to see with a loupe. If you are wanting to get more into watch repair a microscope is invaluable. 

You have resistance testing on this. The ohms meter. Just a thought for a simple fault check. All quartz watches that i have disconnect the battery when the crown is pulled, I'm fairly sure rhis applies to most battery watches. Called a hacking feature on mechanical watches that halt the second hand.

You have resistance testing on this. The ohms meter. Just a thought for a simple fault check. All quartz watches that i have disconnect the battery when the crown is pulled, I'm fairly sure rhis applies to most battery watches. Called a hacking feature on mechanical watches that halt the second hand.

The probes ends on this as with most multimeters will be too large for the small contact circuit points of a quartz movement. I attached a fine needle to each of the probes to make testing easier and more accurate.

This watch does have a hacking mechanism how would I see if that’s the problem ? Other than pulling the crown in and out (didn’t work)

thanks

 

Thanks will make sure to do that  (the needles)

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by TadasJ
Added question

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, TadasJ said:

This watch does have a hacking mechanism how would I see if that’s the problem ? Other than pulling the crown in and out (didn’t work)

thanks

 

Thanks will make sure to do that  (the needles)

 

I dont think we have a photo of what you are working on yet tadas. With this we can indicate what areas you should be looking at . Photos really always need  to be added to every question regarding a specific movement you are working on. As without good optical equipment you are working partially sighted  without a good picture to go with a question we are guessing blind. Pictures are all important. 

[TadasJ]

18 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I dont think we have a photo of what you are working on yet tadas. With this we can indicate what areas you should be looking at . Photos really always need  to be added to every question regarding a specific movement you are working on. As without good optical equipment you are working partially sighted  without a good picture to go with a question we are guessing blind. Pictures are all important. 

My bad I’ve been so distracted here are some photos so far

[HectorLooi]

Have you watched Mark's video on changing a kinetic battery?

Make sure that the battery tags are not shorted to the +ve battery terminal. The tags are so near to the +ve terminal that holding the tags carelessly with a netal tweezer could short rhe battery. Also, make sure that the tiny spring on the  battery tag presses on the little gold pcb pad in the corner. Like what Mark shows in the video.

It sounds like you don't have a background in electronics, so it will be a bit more challenging for you. To test the movement, I just connect a 1.5V power supply to the terminals while the movement is on my impulse tester. If the tester beeps, it means it's ok.

[TadasJ]

5 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Have you watched Mark's video on changing a kinetic battery?

Make sure that the battery tags are not shorted to the +ve battery terminal. The tags are so near to the +ve terminal that holding the tags carelessly with a netal tweezer could short rhe battery. Also, make sure that the tiny spring on the  battery tag presses on the little gold pcb pad in the corner. Like what Mark shows in the video.

It sounds like you don't have a background in electronics, so it will be a bit more challenging for you. To test the movement, I just connect a 1.5V power supply to the terminals while the movement is on my impulse tester. If the tester beeps, it means it's ok.

I have watched this video it was what I used to change the battery, I was just out in the city and bought my self a multimeter and tested the battery it read 1,5 Volts which is what it's rated at and 7 mAh if I did it correct which I might be wrong here doesn't that mean that the battery is ok ? and unfortunately I don't have a background in electronics

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, TadasJ said:

I have watched this video it was what I used to change the battery, I was just out in the city and bought my self a multimeter and tested the battery it read 1,5 Volts which is what it's rated at and 7 mAh if I did it correct which I might be wrong here doesn't that mean that the battery is ok ? and unfortunately I don't have a background in electronics

Around 1.55 is a new battery. 1.5 is a good reading, so battery is coming out ok. My next test would be a module test, i use a cheap 4 in 1 quartz tester. ( around 30 quid ) i supply power to the movements battery contacts via a button cell connected to 2 leads and needles ( again lol  ) the tester will beep  every second in sequence with the module. Without the tester look very very closely at the mechanical section of the movement to see if there is anything twitching . 

[TadasJ]

28 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Around 1.55 is a new battery. 1.5 is a good reading, so battery is coming out ok. My next test would be a module test, i use a cheap 4 in 1 quartz tester. ( around 30 quid ) i supply power to the movements battery contacts via a button cell connected to 2 leads and needles ( again lol  ) the tester will beep  every second in sequence with the module. Without the tester look very very closely at the mechanical section of the movement to see if there is anything twitching . 

Thanks, will try without the tester first then move on from there 

Have great evening