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Would appreciate help about a specific type of watch.

Brnf

By Brnf
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Brnf New Member

Brnf

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I have a Lord Elgin Mystery dial with a black dial and have only seen one since my searches. I've looked up the serial number and it says it was manufactured in 1945 give or take 3yrs up and down. But some of the listings it has mentioned about the watch were incorrect like

Brnf New Member

Brnf

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I have a Lord Elgin Mystery dial with a black dial and have only seen one since my searches. I've looked up the serial number and it says it was manufactured in 1945 give or take 3yrs up and down. But some of the listings it has mentioned about the watch were incorrect like it said it was a 17 jewel and it's actually a 23 jeweled. Could you please help me when it's convenient for you ? Thank You !!

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Brnf said:

I have a Lord Elgin Mystery dial with a black dial and have only seen one since my searches. I've looked up the serial number and it says it was manufactured in 1945 give or take 3yrs up and down. But some of the listings it has mentioned about the watch were incorrect like it said it was a 17 jewel and it's actually a 23 jeweled. Could you please help me when it's convenient for you ? Thank You !!

Eyup brnf. Pop a photo up matey so everyone can see what you are looking at 🙂. Where have you searched ?

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
grsnovi Distinguished Member

grsnovi

Posted
Posted

You might take a look at this thread from 2016 where @diveboy shows his line-up of 5 Lord Elgin Mystery watches (including a 7620 - Lord Elgin Futura Black Variant).

I have heard that Diveboy is a bit of an Elgin expert.

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
On 9/6/2022 at 12:17 PM, Brnf said:

I have a Lord Elgin Mystery dial with a black dial and have only seen one since my searches. I've looked up the serial number and it says it was manufactured in 1945 give or take 3yrs up and down. But some of the listings it has mentioned about the watch were incorrect like it said it was a 17 jewel and it's actually a 23 jeweled. Could you please help me when it's convenient for you ?

it would be nice to have a picture of the watch because we like pictures of watches.

On 9/7/2022 at 4:09 PM, grsnovi said:

I have heard that Diveboy is a bit of an Elgin expert.

yes it's amazing the Elgin knowledge he has like for instance. Pocketwatch databases filled with thousands of errors especially related to Elgin watches. That's because it's based on the Elgin parts catalogs especially the later Logs. The purpose the parts catalog is to help you to identify the correct replacement part. The parts catalog was never meant to be used to identify your watch.

Diveboy can you give you the exact year but basically and thinking about I can't remember the year before your watch though but Elgin changed how they did their catalogs so a lot of earlier watches all get lumped under one category when they're not actually one category. And even for your watch the difference the jewel account does it change the parts used in the watch.

So basically the pocket watch database points you in a direction but it may or not be 100% correct because it's based on faulty information. But for the most part nobody seems to care as they totally unaware of the problem. As I said it's a much greater problem if you have watches made at the very beginning where it might actually be incredibly rare but against lumped under the same categories a bunch of other watches because it use the same parts.

In a case it be nice to see pictures of your watch

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diveboy WRT Addict

diveboy

Posted
Posted

with out seeing it, the only black disc mystery dial is the Futura that was released in 1957. 

movements of that era do not have serial numbers, so can't be found in the look up databases using the serial number. some of the databases have grade lists that can be reference.

23j is correct for the mystery dial line of movements. 

I'm no expert, I prefer GURU, General Understanding Relatively Useless.

I've just asked more questions and found more answers than most, theres still a lot of unknown questions and answers when it comes to Elgin but theres more people digging these days.

 

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Mark Distinguished Member

Mark

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Posted
On 9/8/2022 at 8:17 AM, grsnovi said:

Double post, see replies here:

 

Merging the two - kindly let me know if you spot this in the future by using the "report" feature 🙂

 

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Brnf New Member

Brnf

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10 hours ago, diveboy said:

with out seeing it, the only black disc mystery dial is the Futura that was released in 1957. 

movements of that era do not have serial numbers, so can't be found in the look up databases using the serial number. some of the databases have grade lists that can be reference.

23j is correct for the mystery dial line of movements. 

I'm no expert, I prefer GURU, General Understanding Relatively Useless.

I've just asked more questions and found more answers than most, theres still a lot of unknown questions and answers when it comes to Elgin but theres more people digging these days.

 

It did have a grade, it said 555 whatever that is. I typed the that was on the inside of the back of the watch. The only me that is clear print. I've also noticed that there was a engraved number also one above hallmarking and one below it. Looks like the one below is a 666 in parentheses. Where do I send pics ??

11 hours ago, diveboy said:

with out seeing it, the only black disc mystery dial is the Futura that was released in 1957. 

movements of that era do not have serial numbers, so can't be found in the look up databases using the serial number. some of the databases have grade lists that can be reference.

23j is correct for the mystery dial line of movements. 

I'm no expert, I prefer GURU, General Understanding Relatively Useless.

I've just asked more questions and found more answers than most, theres still a lot of unknown questions and answers when it comes to Elgin but theres more people digging these days.

 

IMG_20220911_070227924.jpg

IMG_20220911_070640559.jpg

IMG_20220911_071431921.jpg

diveboy WRT Addict

diveboy

Posted
Posted

Grade 730, 23j.

On the inside case back, the 4 digit number (7620) is the case style number, you can use that to look up parts for the model (hands, crystal, crown). 

 

 

Brnf New Member

Brnf

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Diveboy.. would you know what the other numbers are ? I'd especially like to know what the engraved numbers mean  it look like at the beginning of the top engravement is 7/73, but the seven over top of the '73. Could it possibly be the seventh watch manufactured out of seventy three ? I looked at them with my loop and that's what I see, also at the bottom appears to the numbers six,six,six in parentheses. But I can not make out what's after that there. It also could be the engraving of a specific jeweler that had done a repair or cleaned it. It is very very very clean inside , like brand new. Works and winds up beautifully.

Thank You Buddy I Appreciate You !! 👍🏼

Edited by Brnf
diveboy WRT Addict

diveboy

Posted
Posted

they are just the scratching of a watchmaker noting adjustments. nothing to do with Elgin Watch Factory.

I've seen maybe 6 black dial Futura's in 7 years, they are not unique but not very common at all. 

Its good to see another one out there.

 

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