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Yaay! 3L Ultrasonic Cleaner ARRIVED

Gramham
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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Gramham said:

@Neverenoughwatches,

Hahahahaha - of course you have my permission to use any and all of my confabulated, archaic, obscure and otherwise (to me at least) neat-o terminology!

g.
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Lol Cheers matey. Get that machine pumping out some good watch cleaning sonics asap it will be fine. I'm pleased to see you are enjoying, and getting passionate and enthusiastic about our little hobby. Have a good day 👍

dadistic Distinguished Member

dadistic

Posted
Posted

My machine does not have multiple power settings.

One thing about cleaning - 

Vintage watches often have issues that make them vulnerable to damage in any cleaning machine, ultrasonic or mechanical. 

The shellac that holds pallets and roller jewels in place can be old and flaking off. Any agitation can loosen things, so that a repair is required after cleaning. I've just had a roller jewel move that I believe moved during cleaning, I need to straighten it out and secure it in place again.

Small parts can be corroded, such that agitation can cause them to break. I've recently had that happen to a regulator pin on a pocket watch.  I could tell it was mostly corroded away, and it broke in the ultrasonic. Replaced it and the watch ran fine and is back in the hands of the owner.

I don't remember ever having any issue with modern watches in the ultrasonic, although I suppose cleaning could expose a manufacturing flaw. 

Cheers!

 

Gramham WRT Addict

Gramham

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 8/19/2022 at 9:30 PM, dadistic said:

My machine does not have multiple power settings.

One thing about cleaning - 

Vintage watches often have issues that make them vulnerable to damage in any cleaning machine, ultrasonic or mechanical. 

The shellac that holds pallets and roller jewels in place can be old and flaking off. Any agitation can loosen things, so that a repair is required after cleaning. I've just had a roller jewel move that I believe moved during cleaning, I need to straighten it out and secure it in place again.

Small parts can be corroded, such that agitation can cause them to break. I've recently had that happen to a regulator pin on a pocket watch.  I could tell it was mostly corroded away, and it broke in the ultrasonic. Replaced it and the watch ran fine and is back in the hands of the owner.

I don't remember ever having any issue with modern watches in the ultrasonic, although I suppose cleaning could expose a manufacturing flaw. 

Cheers!

 

Hello @dadistic,

Thanks for the cautionary note(s).

In his chapter on cleaning, de Carle (1981) mentions special treatment of the mainspring, balance and pallets (p. 207) .

I think that out of an abundance of caution any component with shellac need to be cleaned with very special care, old or not.  While I think Benzine is not especially deleterious to the mainspring (de Carle's advice on page 209 is to wipe the mainspring with Benzine, but not to immerse it in Benzine, which seems odd to me), it is however a strong solvent for shellac. 

On page 212, de Carle recounts the story of a pallet fork being immersed in Benzine for just five minutes and the shellac as a result being pitted and reduced "almost to a jelly".  His final advice was:  "...it is not worth while to court trouble, and in no circumstances should pallets or balance and balance spring be placed in the cleaning fluid used in cleaning machines."  Though it is not clear if the "cleaning fluid" he mentions is Benzine or some other proprietary solution.

It seems that cleaning any watch part that features shellac is very tricky and probably where a manual cleaning event is called for with the minimum possible exposure to vibration and solvents.  

This will be mentioned in the Ultrasonic Cleaner Manual under ULTRASONIC CLEANING APPROACHES BY INDUSTRY, as below...what do you think of this?

image.png.5c6fcffa751a2461b74e312d4131ba58.png


REFERENCES

de Carle, D (1981) CLOCK AND WATCH REPAIRING (2nd Edition), London: Robert Hale (ISBN:  0-7091-9436-6).
https://www.gettextbooks.com/isbn/9780719803802/

dadistic Distinguished Member

dadistic

Posted
Posted

Proper cleaning solutions do not damage watch parts when used in cleaning machines. That's why I switched from DIY solutions to Zenith Hi-Tech cleaning and rinsing solutions. 

The point I was trying to make was that vintage watch parts can be fragile,  and cleaning, however it is done, can be risky at times.  

I routinely clean the balance and pallet fork in my ultrasonic.  

Cheers!

jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, dadistic said:

Proper cleaning solutions do not damage watch parts when used in cleaning machines. 

This must not be taken as an absolute statement. Ammonia is aggressive and other stuff may also be damaging under certain conditions. We have reports of sophisticated plating, like rhodium, being damaged with even relatively short exposure, so caveat emptor. I don't remembered whar was the professional solution blamed for that. 

Personally i think that problems, overspending, waste of chemicals and time largely descends from the fixation for "cleanliness" that some people, beginners but even advanced have. I understand that because this kind of OCD goes hand in hand with watchmaking, but sometime we read things like that one must use an U/S cleaner for a bracelet that needs no more than hit water, dish detergent and and 1 minute with a toothbrush. Or leaving parts in the ultrasonic for 30 minutes!

Overdone / aggressive cleaning is just like excessive lubrication, not only it does not do any good, but actually can create serious issues. 

  • Like 1
dadistic Distinguished Member

dadistic

Posted
Posted

The cleaning solutions that I use have no ammonia in them, and are low odor. I have never seen damage to parts that I could blame on the cleaning solutions. 

Five minute cycles (the default on my machine) are fine in most instances.  Evaluate after, and if needed run another cycle. 

 

JohnFrum WRT Addict

JohnFrum

Posted
Posted (edited)

Gramham, Benzine is another name for Naphtha (aka Petroleum Ether) Note that Benzene is another chemical compound entirely. Likewise Ether is not petroleum ether.

Petroleum ether is a mixture of alkanes, such as pentane, hexane, and heptane. The laboratory reagent  is supplied in different boiling ranges such as 40-60 C and 60-80 C. Each range has a different proportion of alkanes. 

Lab grade Hexane is sometimes recommended for dip cleaning balance springs. 
Easier to obtain the lab reagents where I live so that is what I’m using (or rather intend to use)

Edited by JohnFrum
  • Like 1
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Gramham said:

Benzine, which seems odd to me), it is however a strong solvent for shellac. 

Benzine / naphta / lighter fluid / petroleoum ether / Stoddard / motor petrol / gasoline ( and probably some few dozen more common products or names) are all closely related which do NOT dissolve shellac. All that has been discussed and repeated to death in our pinned topic

 

 

Edited by jdm
Gramham WRT Addict

Gramham

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 hours ago, jdm said:

Benzine / naphta / lighter fluid / petroleoum ether / Stoddard / motor petrol / gasoline ( and probably some few dozen more common products or names) are all closely related which do NOT dissolve shellac. All that has been discussed and repeated to death in our pinned topic

 

 

Hello @jdm,

Thanks for the pointer!

g.
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