Help identify movement in a 1914 military style "trench" watch imported by Stockwell and Co

[Max50916]

I'm looking for help identifying the movement in this watch. Date letter (London) seems to date this case to 1914, sponsored by Stockwell & Co.

I love these types of watches despite the value not being exceptionally high and would love to repair this. The issue is that the balance and hairspring are kaput along with at least the dial side of the balance jewel/cap jewel, as well as there being at least one screw missing (I know in photos that the hour wheel is missing, I took it off so as not to lose it). I figure the best way to go about it is to buy a replacement movement in better condition (and ideally a higher jewel count) and either swap it or scavenge the necessary parts from it.

Issue is that I can't seem to identify the movement at all. I tried using my old Bestfit catalogs to try and identify the setting lever etc but can't match it up. It seems to be a 13L but that's as far as I've gotten. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[WatchMaker]

Marvin 362 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&a&2uswk&Marvin_362

[Neverenoughwatches]

34 minutes ago, WatchMaker said:

Marvin 362 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&a&2uswk&Marvin_362

Watchmaker, how on earth did you find this ?

[WatchMaker]

18 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Watchmaker, how on earth did you find this ?

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

I must admit to having a soft spot for Marvins and have several in my personal collection. Their movements have always appeared to be good quality ... and even a little quirky / original thinking like the 580 if you ever get a chance to work on one. Okay their absorption into Manufactures d'Horlogerie Suisses Réunies (MSR) meant they moved away from their own in-house movements but they have still always seemed good quality and using movements from the likes of ETA.

Although clearly an older watch the stand-out here was that rather unusual setting lever spring (did I say "quirky"? ) .

Edited August 9, 2022 by WatchMaker

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

I must admit to having a soft spot for Marvins and have several in my personal collection. Their movements have always appeared to be good quality ... and even a little quirky / original thinking like the 580 if you ever get a chance to work on one. Okay their absorption into Manufactures d'Horlogerie Suisses Réunies (MSR) meant they moved away from their own in-house movements but they have still always seemed good quality and using movements from the likes of ETA.

Although clearly an older watch the stand-out here was that rather unusual setting lever spring (did I say "quirky"? ) .

Hi  watchmaker, i had an idea that you were familiar with Marvin to identify it so quickly. I do enjoy your knowledgeable help, you always give that bit more to learn from. You now have me looking at my next purchase,  either a Hermetic or a lovely art deco skeleton . i love that styling of the 40s and 50s with great quality watches like Longines, Movado, Doxa,  though the small cases  can make you feel like you are wearing a ladies watch, sometimes luck throws up an oversize. From the ones I've been looking at i have noticed a company connection with Revue. Great history thank you watchmaker.

[WatchMaker]

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Thank you for those kind words.

Whilst I've mentioned Marvin, anything from that MSR group of companies is worth a look. I have a couple of Revue's, a Vertex and a Vulcain. All nice watches. As you say though the fashion for when these were popular was of the smaller size compared to what people prefer today. But fashions come and go and, probably like me, you like what you like and wear what you like.

You've mentioned Longines and as a bit of trivia their 490 movement is the same as the Marvin 700 (but you'll pay a premium for the former).

 

Now coming back to your question...

On 8/8/2022 at 11:55 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Watchmaker, how on earth did you find this ?

... there was actually a way that someone with no (Marvin in this case) knowledge and trying to find a needle in a haystack could have tracked this down. There was some very good information provided by the OP and having just sanity checked the method I'll explain below could have allowed the pinpoint. Let me try and explain! 

Those two pieces of information were 1914 and 13''' (in fact I think it should be a forum mandate that anyone wanting help identifying a movement has to include such size information and preferably a pic of the keyless works!  ).

You'll probably have noticed from any use of the ranfft.de site that it is good at providing the ligne size and usually an example of date of manufacture against movement details.

So try this search in your browser bar...

13''' 1914 site:ranfft.de

Note the three single quotes after the number for ligne size - this format needed for a match to how ranfft provides a size.

This tells the browser to just search the site ranfft.de for any pages with those, in this example, two search terms. Clearly if there were other or different search terms these could be used.

Now look at images returned (I'm using google and sometimes have to select the "see more anyway" option at the bottom of the page if there are more images returned than the paltry default google pulls back).

In this case no matches. But don't despair as we know we should be looking at a reasonable year range for when the movement might have been used and thus be in the ranfft example.

So change 1914 to 1915 and repeat. Mmm ... still nothing.

But now change 1915 to 1916. Bingo!!! There's the fella - fourth image on the top row. Yippee!!! 

Hope the above makes sense! It can be a good way (watch movements or not) if trying to track or narrow something down you think is likely to be against a specific website.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Thank you for those kind words.

Whilst I've mentioned Marvin, anything from that MSR group of companies is worth a look. I have a couple of Revue's, a Vertex and a Vulcain. All nice watches. As you say though the fashion for when these were popular was of the smaller size compared to what people prefer today. But fashions come and go and, probably like me, you like what you like and wear what you like.

You've mentioned Longines and as a bit of trivia their 490 movement is the same as the Marvin 700 (but you'll pay a premium for the former).

 

Now coming back to your question...

... there was actually a way that someone with no (Marvin in this case) knowledge and trying to find a needle in a haystack could have tracked this down. There was some very good information provided by the OP and having just sanity checked the method I'll explain below could have allowed the pinpoint. Let me try and explain! 

Those two pieces of information were 1914 and 13''' (in fact I think it should be a forum mandate that anyone wanting help identifying a movement has to include such size information and preferably a pic of the keyless works!  ).

You'll probably have noticed from any use of the ranfft.de site that it is good at providing the ligne size and usually an example of date of manufacture against movement details.

So try this search in your browser bar...

13''' 1914 site:ranfft.de

Note the three single quotes after the number for ligne size - this format needed for a match to how ranfft provides a size.

This tells the browser to just search the site ranfft.de for any pages with those, in this example, two search terms. Clearly if there were other or different search terms these could be used.

Now look at images returned (I'm using google and sometimes have to select the "see more anyway" option at the bottom of the page if there are more images returned than the paltry default google pulls back).

In this case no matches. But don't despair as we know we should be looking at a reasonable year range for when the movement might have been used and thus be in the ranfft example.

So change 1914 to 1915 and repeat. Mmm ... still nothing.

But now change 1915 to 1916. Bingo!!! There's the fella - fourth image on the top row. Yippee!!! 

Hope the above makes sense! It can be a good way (watch movements or not) if trying to track or narrow something down you think is likely to be against a specific website.

That is really helpful watchmaker, similar to me you put time and effort into helping people, i spoil some of mine though with barmy banter sometimes .  I will be spending the next few days testing myself with that information. I'm now waiting to bid on the Marvin skeleton watch i like. Coincedence that you mentioned you have Vertex, one of the WW2 Brithish army spec watches, another that i want to seek out. In fact any of the 12 DD brand i will look out for. If its a good enough maker for the British army to choose for their soldiers then they must be worth having. 

[Max50916]

6 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

Hi @Neverenoughwatches

Thank you for those kind words.

Whilst I've mentioned Marvin, anything from that MSR group of companies is worth a look. I have a couple of Revue's, a Vertex and a Vulcain. All nice watches. As you say though the fashion for when these were popular was of the smaller size compared to what people prefer today. But fashions come and go and, probably like me, you like what you like and wear what you like.

You've mentioned Longines and as a bit of trivia their 490 movement is the same as the Marvin 700 (but you'll pay a premium for the former).

 

Now coming back to your question...

... there was actually a way that someone with no (Marvin in this case) knowledge and trying to find a needle in a haystack could have tracked this down. There was some very good information provided by the OP and having just sanity checked the method I'll explain below could have allowed the pinpoint. Let me try and explain! 

Those two pieces of information were 1914 and 13''' (in fact I think it should be a forum mandate that anyone wanting help identifying a movement has to include such size information and preferably a pic of the keyless works!  ).

You'll probably have noticed from any use of the ranfft.de site that it is good at providing the ligne size and usually an example of date of manufacture against movement details.

So try this search in your browser bar...

13''' 1914 site:ranfft.de

Note the three single quotes after the number for ligne size - this format needed for a match to how ranfft provides a size.

This tells the browser to just search the site ranfft.de for any pages with those, in this example, two search terms. Clearly if there were other or different search terms these could be used.

Now look at images returned (I'm using google and sometimes have to select the "see more anyway" option at the bottom of the page if there are more images returned than the paltry default google pulls back).

In this case no matches. But don't despair as we know we should be looking at a reasonable year range for when the movement might have been used and thus be in the ranfft example.

So change 1914 to 1915 and repeat. Mmm ... still nothing.

But now change 1915 to 1916. Bingo!!! There's the fella - fourth image on the top row. Yippee!!! 

Hope the above makes sense! It can be a good way (watch movements or not) if trying to track or narrow something down you think is likely to be against a specific website.

WOW. this is such a smart way of checking and one I never would have thought of. Thank you so much!!