Timex Movements...Can I use a M25 movement to adapt to a m105?

[Upgrade1978]

Hello everyone.  Thank you for taking the time to read this post.  I am very new to this hobby and through YouTube I have learned so much over the past few weeks.  I recently purchased a Vintage Timex Mercury watch for $2 at a local Flea Market.  The watch stood out to me in the $2 bin so I decided to grab it.  I actually thought the watch was a quartz movement.  As I drove into the parking lot of Walgreens (on a quest to purchase a battery), I googled the watch and was surprised to find that it was a mechanical movement.  I became so intrigued.  The watch did not operate (hour and minute hands operated, but no second hand movement at all) and as I learned more about the history of Timex and their movements, I decided to order a refurbished movement from eBay.  I purchased the m25 movement, but through additional research, I found that the watch actually houses the m105 movement.  I've dissected the Timex movement archive on Heritage 1854 and I'm hoping I can combine a few features from the m25 on the m105 (the date plate).  Is this a possible option to bring my watch back to life?  Links below for your reference.

https://heritage1854.com/m105

https://heritage1854.com/m105

 

I will share the story at a later date as my curiosity caused me to totally destroy the original movement that was included on this flea market find.  I'll just say....the movement exploded!  I should have just left the movement alone, but you live and you learn.  

I plan to also replace the Acrylic Dome since the dome is in terrible condition.  I have secured the dome remover tools and replacement domes as well.  I'm having a hard time placing the new dome in position, but I'm sure I'll figure this process out as I grow in the hobby.  

I have another repair in the works on a Quartz movement.  I think this will be an easier fix (Invicta Pro Diver).  

 

Thank you!

 

DT

[Shane]

Others may be able to answer this question from their at hand knowledge but I may need to dig out a M25 and an M105 and see how feasible your inquiry is.  From my memories, it's not just an M25 added onto the round date wheel plate.  I think there are differences in the movements main plates and the diameters of the date rings are different.  You may have better luck finding the correct movement or... Depending on what the "explosion" was, transplanting the wheels from one movement to the other might be an option.  If it comes to that, we can look into it.

Let me know if you want me to dig those movements out.

Good luck.

Shane

Edited August 1, 2022 by Shane

[Upgrade1978]

Thanks for your feedback. I am in no way able to transplant parts just yet.  Possible total movement replacement is my knowledge base now.   

[Shane]

12 hours ago, Upgrade1978 said:

I'll just say....the movement exploded!

You probably have, at least several people here quite intrigued.  I know that, I can be included amongst them.  I am looking forward to a time where you are comfortable enough to share your tragic story with the rest of us.

I would comfortably bet that everyone here has looked down at their bench and thought, "Oh (exploitive of choice)!  What just happened?".  We have all have been there and will be there again, soon enough.

Shane 

[watchweasol]

Hi Accordint to the manual the 105 is based on the 104 with the calendar parts, therefore I assume that the plates are different / modified  to carry  to accomodate the extra parts. So based on that information one would assume the M25 is totaly different in its plates.  Our Timex Guru Jersey Mo might be able to confirm.

[Upgrade1978]

Good Morning!  The story isn't that grand.LOL

I basically wanted to attempt to dissect the original 105 movement that was housed in the watch.  I removed a few screws one at a time and I must have unscrewed a spring or something! I heard a light pop and pieces went flying! At that point I knew I did something wrong.  I've vacuumed since then, so I'm sure most small pieces are history.  

 

[Shane]

Before disassembly, you should first/always "let down" (unwind/remove power) from the mainspring.

I, sheepishly, will admit to having forgotten to do that (with similar results).

Shane

[JerseyMo]

No is the answer.....the 105 and 25 share very few interchangeable parts.   BTW:  adding pictures greatly helps others to lend assistance.

[Shane]

Upgrad1978,

How are you making out with your Timex project?

JerseyMo would probably know about interchangeability from first hand exercises.  My thoughts on the subject where based on what I remembered reading on,

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Budget_Watch_Collecting/Timex_movements

"Model 25 is the same as Model 24, with the addition of a date calendar."

"Model 104 is nearly identical to Model 24, with simplified click and different dial mounting. Note extra holes in the corners."

"Model 105 is a Model 104 with date."

It took me some time to re-find the page.

I suppose the author may have simplified the wording they chose or just based their wording from visual cues, not actually meaning that they were all the same and identical.

Based on what they wrote and given the insensitive of what interchangeability would mean for a company like Timex I made the assumption that all the wheels within a companies movements of the same rate would be the same unless a difference was absolutely necessary.

Perhaps I stand corrected.

Shane 

[Shane]

The above post should have read incentive not insensitive.  Don't know where my phone got that one. 

[JerseyMo]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:33 AM, Shane said:

 

"Model 104 is nearly identical to Model 24, with simplified click and different dial mounting. Note extra holes in the corners."

 

other than looking similar there are many differences between the 104 and 24.  The center wheel for example is different.

[Shane]

1 hour ago, JerseyMo said:

On 8/14/2022 at 9:33 AM, Shane said:

 

"Model 104 is nearly identical to Model 24, with simplified click and different dial mounting. Note extra holes in the corners."

 

Expand  

other than looking similar there are many difference

Since I have only seen the tip of what must be an extensive iceberg of information you have on Timex watches, I would surely take your word on this.  Not having the parts lists of the M25 and M105 to compare, I was only speaking to what I had previously read.

The internet, can't trust any of it.

Shane 

 

[Upgrade1978]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:33 AM, Shane said:

Upgrad1978,

How are you making out with your Timex project?

JerseyMo would probably know about interchangeability from first hand exercises.  My thoughts on the subject where based on what I remembered reading on,

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Budget_Watch_Collecting/Timex_movements

"Model 25 is the same as Model 24, with the addition of a date calendar."

"Model 104 is nearly identical to Model 24, with simplified click and different dial mounting. Note extra holes in the corners."

"Model 105 is a Model 104 with date."

It took me some time to re-find the page.

I suppose the author may have simplified the wording they chose or just based their wording from visual cues, not actually meaning that they were all the same and identical.

Based on what they wrote and given the insensitive of what interchangeability would mean for a company like Timex I made the assumption that all the wheels within a companies movements of the same rate would be the same unless a difference was absolutely necessary.

Perhaps I stand corrected.

Shane 

 

Good Morning Shane!  Thank you for checking in.  Well....I had a successful movement transplant!  I found an active 105 movement and completed my watch surgery.  Works well and keeps accurate time.  I also changed out the cracked acrylic crystal and replaced the damaged band/bracelet which left me with a very nice piece (I did scratch the number 9 a bit (right under the bottom hook of the number just a little bit while trying to place the acrylic dome).  I can live with this little mistake.

Recently I've completed a few other Mercury watch refurbishments using the same process.  So thankful for the online resources that are available.  

I also refurbished a Seiko with a 7N43 movement.  I replaced the stem, crown and movement.  Once again, out of my curiosity I damaged the original movement that was in place.  I wanted to get an idea of how the day and date dials operated.  I could not get the movement to work correctly once I attempted to put the movement back together.  Now this watch looks great after I completed the project!  The watch was pretty scratched up with regards to the two tone surfaces, but a Green Brillo Pad added a nice brushed finish that I am so proud of.  I can live with the light scratches on the crystal.  Adds a bit of character to the watch.  

I have another Seiko upgrade on the horizon (found a nice 7N29 movement with a clean dial in a bargain bin that works well, but just needs a new watch case and bracelet).  

I have a vintage Swatch that has so much sentimental value to me.  Unfortunately, the repair shop in my area called me and said they are unable to service my watch (after keeping my watch for a month) due to the fact that the tool to open the case is not available.  I'll pick it up this week to see if I can find an alternate source for repair (or attempt to complete it myself).  I have to really think about this attempt. In the back of my mind I think I can do it.  This watch is a Swatch Irony Scuba 200 from the late 90's.  I purchased this watch at Heathrow Airport while traveling back to the States after my summer study abroad program ended.  I really love this watch.  I'd like to get it back up and running.  I'm researching a possible movement replacement which seems to be the easiest repair for Quartz watches. What caused me to inquire about repairing the watch was stiffness as I tried to set the time and date after a battery replacement.  The watch does not keep accurate time and I cannot change the date (which seemed to just happen suddenly after I replaced the battery?).  A complete movement swap seems to be the most sensible repair. 

Once again, thanks for checking in.  Looking to learn more as I dive into this hobby. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Upgrade1978