Oris 292 keyless works question

[Kappa505]

I am currently towards the end of re assembly of this Oris 292 movement. I dropped the ball on documenting the disassembly and am not sure what is actually happening underneath this cover plate circled in blue. I know that the three gears go together on the back of the plate. What I don't know is what engages with the spring circled in red and where does the other setting lever go. The gears are placed in more or less the position they need to be in for the cover plate to be installed on the last picture. Anyone know anything about this movement?

[MrRoundel]

Was the watch transitioning between winding and setting before you started on it? It looks like that spring should have a part that sticks up and catches the hole in the rocking bar/bascule part. It does have to have a spring engage on it somewhere. Maybe the spring had the end broken off somehow?

I'm just guessing, as I don't know this movement. Good luck.

 

[Kappa505]

  On 7/30/2022 at 10:49 PM, MrRoundel said:

Was the watch transitioning between winding and setting before you started on it? It looks like that spring should have a part that sticks up and catches the hole in the rocking bar/bascule part. It does have to have a spring engage on it somewhere. Maybe the spring had the end broken off somehow?

I'm just guessing, as I don't know this movement. Good luck.

 

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I have no idea. This watch was a non runner from eBay and both springs in the original plate were already destroyed (this is a new main plate that I ordered), so I don't really have that good of an idea of how it all goes together.  I assembled everything yesterday and engaged the spring with the post in the plate that holds the gears. It kinda worked but I don't think it was right. I still have no idea what to do with the other lever.

[MrRoundel]

Sorry I can't be of more help. I hope someone drops in and provides you with the information you need. Good luck. Cheers.

 

[Kalanag]

  On 7/30/2022 at 11:15 PM, Kappa505 said:

…I still have no idea what to do with the other lever.

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This additional lever is definitely not used on your movement. It looks like a duplicate. The pic shows that there is just one lever in this movement (147).

 

The spring 15 has to set the rocking plate 14 under tension somehow.

 

Here you see how the longer leg of the spring is bent downwards when the plate is mounted. Obviously it pushes the right part of the plate up:

Edited July 31, 2022 by Kalanag

[Marc]

This is the underside of the plate with the wheels installed. As you can see it has a pin (arrowed). This fits behind the spring as shown below such that the spring pushes the pin towards the setting lever.

It's not the easiest of installs because the plate covers most of the access to the spring, however, there is just enough room (shown below) to use an oiler to wedge the spring down to create a gap between the main plate and the spring for the pin to drop in to.

[HectorLooi]

  On 7/31/2022 at 9:19 AM, Marc said:

It's not the easiest of installs because the plate covers most of the access to the spring, however, there is just enough room (shown below) to use an oiler to wedge the spring down to create a gap between the main plate and the spring for the pin to drop in to.

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It might be easier to install the keyless before the mainspring bridge.

[Kappa505]

  On 7/31/2022 at 7:12 AM, Kalanag said:

This additional lever is definitely not used on your movement. It looks like a duplicate. The pic shows that there is just one lever in this movement (147)

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Thanks, there must have been one installed on the replacement main plate and I didn't notice. 

  On 7/31/2022 at 9:19 AM, Marc said:

This fits behind the spring as shown below such that the spring pushes the pin towards the setting lever

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I tried that but the operation wasn't smooth. The crown had to have pressure in a certain direction in order to have the gears of the plate engage properly during winding. I wish I could post a video of it. 

[grsnovi]

  On 7/31/2022 at 2:09 PM, Kappa505 said:

I wish I could post a video of it.

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Make your video, upload it to YouTube, then post the link to the YouTube.

[Kalanag]

  On 7/31/2022 at 2:09 PM, Kappa505 said:

…I tried that but the operation wasn't smooth. The crown had to have pressure in a certain direction in order to have the gears of the plate engage properly during winding.

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The spring should push the right side of the rocker plate up enough to bring the intermediate wheel on the left side into engagement.

[Kappa505]

  On 7/31/2022 at 4:45 PM, Kalanag said:

The spring should push the right side of the rocker plate up enough to bring the intermediate wheel on the left side into engagement.

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I will set it up again and make a video. 

  On 7/31/2022 at 9:30 AM, HectorLooi said:

It might be easier to install the keyless before the mainspring bridge

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The mainspring bridge is on the opposite side of the plate with this movement. I don't know that it would make a difference. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 7/30/2022 at 8:02 PM, Kappa505 said:

Anyone know anything about this movement?

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Yes Kappa. They are a  pain in the arse.  Hope this helps

  On 7/31/2022 at 6:45 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yes Kappa. They are a  pain in the arse.  Hope this helps

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Sorry mate i couldn't resist. I have stripped and reassembled a few like these when i first started.  This part of the movement is bloody awkward to put back together and definitely needs some photo recall. I also got stuck at this point for a good hour trying to figure out the best way. I do seem to remember i did some reassembling of this from the dial side, possibly that return spring. If you are really stuck i will see what i have that i can strip back. 

  On 7/31/2022 at 7:12 AM, Kalanag said:

This additional lever is definitely not used on your movement. It looks like a duplicate. The pic shows that there is just one lever in this movement (147).

 

The spring 15 has to set the rocking plate 14 under tension somehow.

 

Here you see how the longer leg of the spring is bent downwards when the plate is mounted. Obviously it pushes the right part of the plate up:

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That has just jogged my memory. The pin on the back side of the  gear rocker plate fits behind the long side of the spring. This then returns the plate and gears to winding position. The arkward part is getting the spring in front of the pin. The easiest way is with the gear train removed, fit the spring after the setting and winding gears are in position then reinstall the train . You've probably already figured that out by now. The other lever is a duplicate of the stem setting lever.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Kappa505]

Ok I have reassembled this part. It still doesn't feel right. Here is a video of the keyless works in action. I also believe the hairspring on the balance isn't concentric. I guess I will be reviewing marcs course on how to address this situation. 

 

Here is a short of the balance in action on the old main plate. 

https://youtu.be/3z4uDOxqutU

[HectorLooi]

  On 8/3/2022 at 12:42 AM, Kappa505 said:

Ok I have reassembled this part. It still doesn't feel right.

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It appears to be working correctly. How does it not feel right? Is it tight or rough?

[Kappa505]

  On 8/3/2022 at 12:57 AM, HectorLooi said:

It appears to be working correctly. How does it not feel right? Is it tight or rough?

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It feels both tight and rough. 

[HectorLooi]

  On 8/3/2022 at 1:09 AM, Kappa505 said:

It feels both tight and rough. 

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If you look at the photo that @Marc posted above, the 3 wheels should have the bevelled teeth facing up. Accidentally fitting the wheels in the wrong orientation will result in the symptoms you described. 

[Kappa505]

  On 8/3/2022 at 1:20 AM, HectorLooi said:

If you look at the photo that @Marc posted above, the 3 wheels should have the bevelled teeth facing up. Accidentally fitting the wheels in the wrong orientation will result in the symptoms you described. 

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Hmm. I looked for bevels and didn't see a difference on either side. I will look again. Thanks for the help. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/3/2022 at 12:42 AM, Kappa505 said:

Ok I have reassembled this part. It still doesn't feel right. Here is a video of the keyless works in action. I also believe the hairspring on the balance isn't concentric. I guess I will be reviewing marcs course on how to address this situation. 

 

Here is a short of the balance in action on the old main plate. 

https://youtu.be/3z4uDOxqutU

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What is it about the winding and setting that doesnt feel right ? Is the spring working to return the rocker plate smoothly ?

  On 8/3/2022 at 6:18 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

What is it about the winding and setting that doesnt feel right ? Is the spring working to return the rocker plate smoothly ?

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Sorry for the same questioning, further replies are not always shown for some reason until after i answer the initial question. Quite frustrating , possibly a problem with the forum site , its happened a few times now.

  On 8/3/2022 at 1:20 AM, HectorLooi said:

If you look at the photo that @Marc posted above, the 3 wheels should have the bevelled teeth facing up. Accidentally fitting the wheels in the wrong orientation will result in the symptoms you described. 

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HectorLooi is correct one side of the teeth have a chamfer. All the gears should be the same orientation of facing downwards when the rocker plate is installed.

[Kappa505]

  On 8/3/2022 at 6:18 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

HectorLooi is correct one side of the teeth have a chamfer. All the gears should be the same orientation of facing downwards when the rocker plate is installed.

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I will check the gears again. 

[Kappa505]

So there are no bevels on the gears but I did find this. 

[Kalanag]

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/4/2022 at 12:28 AM, Kappa505 said:

So there are no bevels on the gears but I did find this. 

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Thats a bugger mate. Ratchet wheel on top of the barrel ? HectorLooi might know a thing or two of how to fix a broken tooth.  

[HectorLooi]

Sorry, I only fix teeth in the mouth. Human mouths. Not dogs, cats, hamsters, horses, cows....

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/5/2022 at 12:42 AM, HectorLooi said:

Sorry, I only fix teeth in the mouth. Human mouths. Not dogs, cats, hamsters, horses, cows....

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Ahem Hector your sarcasm is catching up wirh mine

[Kappa505]

Alright I finally got a new ratchet wheel in as well as a donor balance. The donor balance had a broken pivot but the hairspring looked ok to me so I switched it to replace the original. I believe I am ready to re assemble this thing. I was thinking about doing a post on the reassembly but wasn't sure what specific steps would be valuable to anyone. Should I do a re assembly post?